The US fiasco in Iraq

GenSeneca

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What do you think would happen if you took all the borders of Eu today and just drew new ones at compleat random...It would be like the middle east.
Modern Europeans? I don't think you'd see too many problems, certainly nothing like the middle east... It's just tough to imagine Walter as a secret ninja commando... Unless "Vertzeihung!" was his battlecry... He'd just stalk the landscape looking for people who shared his religious views, but not his exact religious views, and bring them swiftly to deaths justice exactly as his holy E-mail from church commanded.

Now, Europe 600 years ago... Yeah, bloodbath. Religious beliefs that are stalled 600 years in the past are still alive and killing today, in the middle east.
 
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Walter

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It's just tough to imagine Walter as a secret ninja commando... Unless "Vertzeihung!" was his battlecry...

Oh, thanks. I'm just not sure if you see me as a rational individuum or not :D

He'd just stalk the landscape looking for people who shared his religious views, but not his exact religious views, and bring them swiftly to deaths justice exactly as his holy E-mail from church commanded.

Depends. In Eastern Europe there are still many conflicts and it was not so long ago (in historic terms) that I had to face a war on the borders of my own country: Yugoslav Wars, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars
As always, it often is not about religion but about leaders trying to abuse people and to make them think its about religion.
 
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GenSeneca

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Oh, thanks. I'm just not sure if you see me as a rational individuum or not :D
You do strike me as someone who's rational... Which is why it's difficult to believe you'd suddenly turn cold blooded killer if the lines of state were redrawn.

Depends. In Eastern Europe there are still many conflicts and it was not so long ago (in historic terms) that I had to face a war on the borders of my own country: Yugoslav Wars, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars
Do you doubt that would have happened regardless of the political boundaries drawn on the map?

As always, it often is not about religion but about leaders trying to abuse people and to make them think its about religion.
Agreed. Redrawing the political lines on a map is not the reason that violence began, it's just a convenient excuse.
 

GBFan

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Where are you arguments?

It is impossible to have a discussion with someone who intentionally radiates ignorance and stupidity while ignoring the FACTS ... the facts of history, the facts of the current situation, and the facts of the actions/reactions of the current US regime.

It is a colossal waste of time and effort to attempt to have an intelligent debate with those who will not listen, but rather, upon being challenged with facts, instead resort to name calling, vulgarity, and personal attacks.

Sadly, that seems to be acceptable reality around here ...
 

dogtowner

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It is impossible to have a discussion with someone who intentionally radiates ignorance and stupidity while ignoring the FACTS ... the facts of history, the facts of the current situation, and the facts of the actions/reactions of the current US regime.

It is a colossal waste of time and effort to attempt to have an intelligent debate with those who will not listen, but rather, upon being challenged with facts, instead resort to name calling, vulgarity, and personal attacks.

Sadly, that seems to be acceptable reality around here ...
Pretty sure Walter has never resorted to name calling vulgarities or personal attacks so are we to gather you have no response to his request ?
 

GBFan

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Pretty sure Walter has never resorted to name calling vulgarities or personal attacks so are we to gather you have no response to his request ?

Pretty sure the comment wasn't referring to anything Walter said ... MAYBE you should actually take a look at the original post. You will clearly see that I referred to nonsense posted by POS.
 

dogtowner

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Pretty sure the comment wasn't referring to anything Walter said ... MAYBE you should actually take a look at the original post. You will clearly see that I referred to nonsense posted by POS.
I looked at the post you quoted. That being the post you chose to respond to. If you wish to insinuate Walter does things he does not do in response to a reasonable response that is your choice to make.
 

GBFan

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I looked at the post you quoted. That being the post you chose to respond to. If you wish to insinuate Walter does things he does not do in response to a reasonable response that is your choice to make.

I made no reference whatsoever to Walter ... you are the one who introduced his name into the discussion.

If you wish to intentionally misinterpret what I said, that is your mistake to make.
 

Aus22

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You do have to go back hundreds of years ago to understand this. The borders of Iraq were drawn up by the West at the fall of the Otaman Empire . Now the inhabitants want to draw up their own boundaries.
 

GBFan

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You do have to go back hundreds of years ago to understand this. The borders of Iraq were drawn up by the West at the fall of the Otaman Empire . Now the inhabitants want to draw up their own boundaries.

"The Iran-Iraq boundary dates back to the 1639 Zuhab Treaty between the Ottoman Empire, which controlled Iraq, and Persia." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_border

The Syria-Iraq and Turkey-Iraq borders were formally established by the League of Nations when the Ottoman Empire was divided by the Treaty of Sèvres, but they closely aligned with the borders in place during the 430 year reign of the Ottoman Empire.

Only the border with Saudi Arabia in the south underwent significant change as a result of the Treaty of Sevres.
 

GBFan

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You do have to go back hundreds of years ago to understand this. The borders of Iraq were drawn up by the West at the fall of the Otaman Empire . Now the inhabitants want to draw up their own boundaries.

So, the question becomes ... is it in our best interests to allow establishment of a fundamental Islam state with an avowed mission to destroy us, and to what lengths are we willing to go to stop it??
 
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pocketfullofshells

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It is impossible to have a discussion with someone who intentionally radiates ignorance and stupidity while ignoring the FACTS ... the facts of history, the facts of the current situation, and the facts of the actions/reactions of the current US regime.

It is a colossal waste of time and effort to attempt to have an intelligent debate with those who will not listen, but rather, upon being challenged with facts, instead resort to name calling, vulgarity, and personal attacks.

Sadly, that seems to be acceptable reality around here ...
:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:
 

Aus22

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GBFan asks ïs it in our intersts to allow a fundamental Islam state with an avowed mission to destroy us" When you say our I think you are refering to the USA. We in Australia are closer to the largest Moslem country.Indonesia.
Many extreme branches of Islam talk about destroying other religions or sects. As you show in Europe 600 years ago, But research into the leaders of this movements show the leaders were not very religious and just use this as excuse.
There is no longer of any these movements destroying us, They may have their area but not outside. Better to not take sides but stay out of the conflict.
 
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GBFan

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GBFan asks ïs it in our intersts to allow a fundamental Islam state with an avowed mission to destroy us" When you say our I think you are refering to the USA. We in Australia are closer to the largest Moslem country.Indonesia.
Many extreme branches of Islam talk about destroying other religions or sects. As you show in Europe 600 years ago, But research into the leaders of this movements show the leaders were not very religious and just use this as excuse.
There is no longer of any these movements destroying us, They may have their area but not outside. Better to not take sides but stay out of the conflict.

Actually, I was speaking of all countries who should feel threatened by Islam extremism ... including yours.

You seriously believe that they have no intent to export terrorism, or attack the US, or attack Israel, or attack Australia ... or kill off all non-Muslims within their borders?

Really?
 
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