there was a discussion of docs killing live babies

[dogtowner]

well here's an example

Story contains graphic descriptions in paragraphs five through eight.

(Reuters) - Two employees of a Philadelphia abortion clinic where live, viable babies were allegedly killed and a patient died after being given on overdose of painkillers pleaded guilty on Thursday to murder.
Guilty pleas to third-degree murder were entered by Adrienne Moton, 34, and Sherry West, 52, who both worked for Dr. Kermit Gosnell at what prosecutors have described as a decrepit and unsanitary clinic known as Women's Medical Society in West Philadelphia.
Due to a court-issued gag order, attorneys declined to comment on reports that no plea agreement was reached in the case.
Sentencing was set for December 2 by Common Pleas Judge Benjamin Lerner. The maximum penalty for third-degree murder is 40 years in prison.
Seven more defendants face charges in the case, including Gosnell, who a grand jury in January said, "killed babies and endangered women. What we mean is that he regularly and illegally delivered live, viable babies in the third trimester of pregnancy -- and then murdered these newborns by severing their spinal cords with scissors."
The grand jury said that a clinic co-worker of Moton's testified that a woman gave birth to a large baby at the clinic, delivering the child into a toilet. The jurors identified the newborn as "Baby D."
The jurors said the co-worker told them that the baby was moving and looked like it was swimming.
"Moton reached into the toilet, got the baby out and cut its neck," the grand jury said in its report.
West was accused of murder in the death of a 41-year-old patient, Karnamaya Mongar.
"The evidence presented to the grand jury established that Karnamaya Mongar died of cardiac arrest because she was overdosed with Demerol," the grand jurors said.
The grand jury said West and another employee administered the drug at Gosnell's direction and that Mongar died as a result of "wanton reckless conduct."

 

[pocketfullofshells]

and was it legal?

 

[Pandora]

well here's an example

Story contains graphic descriptions in paragraphs five through eight.

That is so sad and so disgusting. I am glad the people spoke up. I do not understand why the judge would have the gag order. This sort of thing needs to be brought out in the light so it can be ended.

 

[dogtowner]

and was it legal?

in this case no.

 

[Pandora]

in this case no.

Is it ever legal to cut the throat of a live baby fully born? Or intentionally kill them in any way? I know they have wiggle room by intentionally making the baby come breech then killing it before the head has a chance to come out but outride fully born kids being intentionally killed seems against the law for any reason

 

[dogtowner]

Is it ever legal to cut the throat of a live baby fully born? Or intentionally kill them in any way?

I think they are only supposed to be partially delivered for partial birth abortions before they're killed. But those are clearly intentional.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

in this case no.

so whats your point? ban something thats not legal?

 

[Pandora]

so whats your point? ban something thats not legal?

We are told by the left who supports partial birth abortions that this sort of thing never happens. Don't you think its a good thing that when it does we know about it?

 

[Openmind]

so whats your point? ban something thats not legal?

I like the way you think!

 

[dogtowner]

so whats your point? ban something thats not legal?

point more to do with whether these sorts of things occur. clearly they do.

there was als a discussion related to legislation allowing live babies to die under some circumstances.

 

[Openmind]

point more to do with whether these sorts of things occur. clearly they do.

there was als a discussion related to legislation allowing live babies to die under some circumstances.

You mean. . .it's news to you that there are people who kill and abuse children all over the US . . .and the world for that matter?

Is it "more criminal" to kill a premature birth fetus than it is to kill a one month, or 6 month, or 3 year old child?

A crime is a crime. . .It has NOTHING to do with legal abortion, not even with legal late term abortions!

 

[dogtowner]

You mean. . .it's news to you that there are people who kill and abuse children all over the US . . .and the world for that matter?

Is it "more criminal" to kill a premature birth fetus than it is to kill a one month, or 6 month, or 3 year old child?

A crime is a crime. . .It has NOTHING to do with legal abortion, not even with legal late term abortions!

not news to me but I believe you were one looking for examples.

does "live, viable babies" really equate to "premature birth fetus" to you ?

 

[Openmind]

not news to me but I believe you were one looking for examples.

does "live, viable babies" really equate to "premature birth fetus" to you ?

Guess what. . .in late term abortions, fetus are NOT fully developped and rarely viable. . . because if they were, and if the life of the mother was not in danger, the late term abortion wouldn't be legal to begin with.

Aren't you the one who mention delivering "breeched babies" so that they would die before the head comes out?

Do you realize that it is almost impossible to deliver a breeched baby without turning it around. . .so it is no longer breeched, UNLESS the fetus is so small, that it can easily slide through the birth canal in any position.

The point is that almost every case of "killing aborted fetus" you will find will be exactly that: CRIMES that would have happened with or without late term abortion law in existence. . .because that's what crimes are. . .something that happens OUTSIDE the law!

And, as I tried to explain to Pandora a few days ago, all fetus that comes out of the birth canal BREATHING are not necessarely "viable" although the breathing may indicate that they are alive!

There is a condition that often leads to late term abortion of fetus developping without a brain (Anancephaly) or rather with only the base of a brain that will NEVER allow the fetus to develop into a human being. It is then up to the parents to make the decision to either have a late term abortion and, if the fetus is "temporarely" viable, some parents have made the immense gesture of love to give that fetus healthy organs for transplants in order to save other infants' life.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Guess what. . .in late term abortions, fetus are NOT fully developped and rarely viable. . . because if they were, and if the life of the mother was not in danger, the late term abortion wouldn't be legal to begin with.

Aren't you the one who mention delivering "breeched babies" so that they would die before the head comes out?

Do you realize that it is almost impossible to deliver a breeched baby without turning it around. . .so it is no longer breeched, UNLESS the fetus is so small, that it can easily slide through the birth canal in any position.

The point is that almost every case of "killing aborted fetus" you will find will be exactly that: CRIMES that would have happened with or without late term abortion law in existence. . .because that's what crimes are. . .something that happens OUTSIDE the law!

And, as I tried to explain to Pandora a few days ago, all fetus that comes out of the birth canal BREATHING are not necessarely "viable" although the breathing may indicate that they are alive!

There is a condition that often leads to late term abortion of fetus developping without a brain (Anancephaly) or rather with only the base of a brain that will NEVER allow the fetus to develop into a human being. It is then up to the parents to make the decision to either have a late term abortion and, if the fetus is "temporarely" viable, some parents have made the immense gesture of love to give that fetus healthy organs for transplants in order to save other infants' life.

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sound of the right

 

[clarkatticus]

The ethics of late term abortion are problematical, fraught with on the spot decisions no one would like to make. what happened here was clearly illegal. We can point out the clinic as an example of all clinics that perform these procedures. Fair enough, Ok if we point out every gun crime out there as a trial on gun law? How about the tens of thousands of innocents who died in the Iraq civil war we caused, could we use this to indict GW for war crimes? Or.... Maybe we can just say that all controversial decisions will have some bad results and the best thing to do is to deal with them appropiately within the law and use reason to come to the best solution.