US pions fear the US people hearing Ahmadinejad ... why?

Bunz

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You just don't like me, do you?

He said that the Soviets, the French, the British, and the Germans armed Saddam. I said we did too. If you look up the list you'll find that in his last response to me he made mention of the 100 helicopters that we did sell to Saddam.

Yeah, we didn't do as much as the others he mentioned. In the interests of honesty though we ought to recognize that we did contribute to Saddam's military inventory.

Now, as I said before, I cant speak about secret backdoor dealings, and potentially dual purpose material. But the roughly 100 helicopters are not strictly attack choppers. They are training and liason types.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TH-55_Osage
This one looks like an old MASH tin can type. 2 seats, no weapons.

about 30 of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MD_Helicopters_Defender
This one is capable of carrying some weapons, but the US never sold them with weapons such as the TOW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_214ST
A weapon-less transport helicopter, that in its current uses are ferries to offshore oil platforms. Again no weapons, it is more or less a civilian use type.

http://rotorsales.com/MD/530.htm
Again, a chopper that is used in America as a police and television station platform.

Granted these could be used to transport troops and officers to various battle field locations if needed. But from what I have researched none of them were used in the 91 war or the 2003 invasion. Yes the US did sell them roughly 100 helicopters for transport use. Most of them carrying 2-4 people.
The French and Germans are the two biggest western countries responsible for arming Saddam. The Soviets and eastern bloc were far and away the largest. But certainly the US did not supply weapons systems as other countries did.
It is a matter of, at a few points throughout the mutual history of the US and Iraq especially in the last 30 years, there have been fairly good relations. But good relations can always go bad. Just like bad relations can improve.
 
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Bunz

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Step back and just look at situation ...and tell me ...looking at the situation on paper ...who look more like a backward ignorant nation??
Well for my money, it is the Iranians. Half of thier population is repressed. That being women. Most minorities are repressed. Thier country has considerable oil wealth, but it mostly goes unshared. The difference between the rich and poor in Iran is beyond staggering. They have refused to comply with UN and international wishes to end thier nuclear program. I dont wish ill to the Iranians or anyone for that matter, but to sit back and claim that Iran and its leaders are the beacon of hope and freedom in that region is a joke.
 

berreal

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Well for my money, it is the Iranians. Half of thier population is repressed. That being women. Most minorities are repressed. Thier country has considerable oil wealth, but it mostly goes unshared. The difference between the rich and poor in Iran is beyond staggering. They have refused to comply with UN and international wishes to end thier nuclear program. I dont wish ill to the Iranians or anyone for that matter, but to sit back and claim that Iran and its leaders are the beacon of hope and freedom in that region is a joke.

Well glad to see Iran is just like the US. Where blacks and many other minority groups are at the back of the line because of inherent generational racism. And where only some 25 to 30 years ago women were in upheaval for eaual rights ..and where less than 10% of our citizenry controls over 90% of the wealth. Last time I checked how much more was the average CEO making over the average worker?

Look, Iran has a different culture ...they are different from us. They don't make movies with women having sex with cows and horses like we do ...and so what??

The fact is we shouldn't allow these diferences to make us want to further kill them. And this is what bush and his surrogates are doing.

If you stand back and examine the situation its a dumb Iranian who isn't wary of Americans. Because historically we have caused them far more harm than they have caused us. Its America who helped facilitate the war with their neighbors..its America who was instrumental in toppling the democracy that once existed there ..and its America who's arming Israel with all the might to destroy their country several times over!!


Mr.Ahmadinejad talked the truth today in his address to the UN. The US is a bully who creates and breaks the rules at will.

Don't like Iran ..lets hide behind the UN and make then create a new rule. The UN got a rule that Israel is violating ...lets ignore it!!

Our credibility is zero ..... and the UN is just our tool to use as we wish.

Its a joke when Condeleeza rice was running around parroting Iran's violation of UN sanction 15#### blah-blah-blah!! A joke!

You can't storm into a country under false pretext ..kill 100's of 1,000's, detroy the countries infrastructure and displace almost all of its citizen ...and when the pretext becomes unfounded you say ...whoops ...sorry!!

How..why ..is there no accountability for that?

Nobody in the UN has the guts to even make American apologize for all the suffering we caused!!

Its the same dam thing we did when it comes to slavery ...there's a history here.

So when somebody talks about Iran and its treatment for women and gays .....to anybody seeing the big picture ....its laughable!!!
 

Bunz

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Berreal, you really ought to go back and learn some history and get some facts. You dribble opinion on here and have nothing to back it up.
Well glad to see Iran is just like the US. Where blacks and many other minority groups are at the back of the line because of inherent generational racism. And where only some 25 to 30 years ago women were in upheaval for eaual rights ..and where less than 10% of our citizenry controls over 90% of the wealth. Last time I checked how much more was the average CEO making over the average worker?
While the state of civil rights among minority groups and women in America doesnt have a proud history, lets look at the current situation. In America, everyone who wants to vote and choose thier leaders is able to do that. Race, religion, gender, marital status are all treated equally in theory.
Your right that the CEO in America makes exponentially more money than thier mail clerk and you know what, that is probably rightfully so. It is a matter of generating more money for the company, education and experience levels. In Iran, the divide is more dramatic and is often as a result of religious power. Iran is a theocracy.

Look, Iran has a different culture ...they are different from us. They don't make movies with women having sex with cows and horses like we do ...and so what??
Well thats an interesting example, gotta tell ya, I am a 26 year old American, Ive never seen a movie as you describe. Come up with a better example than that please. It makes you lose credibility. And keep your fetishes to yourself

You can't storm into a country under false pretext ..kill 100's of 1,000's, detroy the countries infrastructure and displace almost all of its citizen ...and when the pretext becomes unfounded you say ...whoops ...sorry!!
Hmmm...unless I am missing something, the US hasnt done that in Iran. Learn a little geography. But I do remember a pretty devastating earthquake in Iran recently and it was the US who responsed much more effectively with humanitarian aide than the Iranians were. But if that didnt happen, you would be spouting your blame America first lines about letting a humanitarian crisis happen.


I happened to watch some of the Iranian President's speech and his comments about thier nuclear program being a non-issue is totally bogus.
Here are the facts when it comes to Iran. Women are third class citizens. They dont enjoy the basic freedoms that we do here. They support groups that are violent to the US and our allies. They execute homosexuals and children have no civil rights. If you want to align yourself with a even more hypocritical government than the US government that is fine. Because in America you are allowed to differ in opinion. But no worries in my book.

Just strap on your knee pads, and get in the kool-aid line.
 

Popeye

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I happened to watch some of the Iranian President's speech and his comments about thier nuclear program being a non-issue is totally bogus.

First off, let me say I in no way advocate the religious based persecution in Iran. Also, I am in no way a supporter of Iran's foreign policy. Nevertheless, Iranian president Ahmadinejad, while addressing the UN General Assembly, asked an interesting question when referring to his country's contentious nuclear program,"How come is it that you have that right, and we can't have it". Of course, I know all the official stated reasons, but look at it from the other side. They see the US and it's allies going about the world deciding who can develop a nuclear program and who can't. They see the US invading the country on it's borders. Is it any wonder that they feel threatened? Lets try talking to the Iranians, I think they would be very receptive to real honest diplomatic overtures.
 

Castle

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Fine then Berreal. It appears you'll always have a long list of reasons why we should do nothing about what you perceive to be false threats to the US. So then it comes down to us against them regardless of the incessant one dimensional rhetoric that is constantly shoveled on top. I'll take us ten times out of ten by the way! Lets consider for a moment that we decide to completely withdraw militarily and politically from the middle east. Sounds like a plan yeah? I actually find this to be a viable option and would support it. Don't get excited as I have not been assimilated into the leftist borg hive. I feel we are wasting our valuable time and resources trying to turn a society that by its very nature is driven to despise us. I think we should allow Iran/the Middle East to take full responsibility for their actions without any influence from western countries - this includes policing the plethora of islamic extremist groups that run virtually unchecked in many middle eastern countries. There is of course one hitch that I would make VERY clear to the likes of Mr.Ahmadinejad. If we suffer another 9/11 or worse the game is over. There will be no long drawn out verbal condemnation coupled with UN pity parties that accomplish nothing. There will be no political finger pointing to assign blame to liberals or conservatives. Suffice it to say - they'll never see it coming but they will know why!

-Castle
 

Bunz

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How come is it that you have that right, and we can't have it". Of course, I know all the official stated reasons, but look at it from the other side. They see the US and it's allies going about the world deciding who can develop a nuclear program and who can't. They see the US invading the country on it's borders. Is it any wonder that they feel threatened? Lets try talking to the Iranians, I think they would be very receptive to real honest diplomatic overtures.

Popeye, I dont disagree with your sentiments that we should engage the Iranians diplomatically. I think it wise to converse with those we disagree with. Often times it is a lack of communication that leads to physical disagreement. I will also say that I am an empathetic to thier view on several other countries having nuclear technology and them not being allowed to have it. But I find it a bit ironic that it is often the Iranians and other middle eastern leaders who say the worst terrorist act in history was the atomic attacks of WWII. If they arent terrorists, why would they want to have any part of the very technology they denouce as evil. Ultimately, my concern is not Iran launching a direct attack against any other country, but thier proliferation of this technology into private hands.
 

drippinhun

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Popeye, I dont disagree with your sentiments that we should engage the Iranians diplomatically. I think it wise to converse with those we disagree with. Often times it is a lack of communication that leads to physical disagreement. I will also say that I am an empathetic to thier view on several other countries having nuclear technology and them not being allowed to have it. But I find it a bit ironic that it is often the Iranians and other middle eastern leaders who say the worst terrorist act in history was the atomic attacks of WWII. If they arent terrorists, why would they want to have any part of the very technology they denouce as evil. Ultimately, my concern is not Iran launching a direct attack against any other country, but thier proliferation of this technology into private hands.

This coming from a citizen of the largest exporter of weapons to murder others? Bush's ballyhoo with North Korea, Iraq and Iran lacked all elements of diplomacy. Our failure to engage and create a friendship with even Cuba is a testament to how unequal power can often lead to a level of arrogance and dismissal that fosters wars or invasions.
 

Bunz

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Hun, why are you targeting me here, I have said diplomacy is critical and we should be doing it and Bush has failed in this miserably at the expense of the American people in the world community.
 

drippinhun

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I'm not targeting you. I just think for us to project that Iran should be excluded from operating as they see fit within their borders is a double standard.
 

Popeye

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At the beginning of Iranian president Ahmadinejad's speech before the UN general assembly Tuesday, the US delegation got up and walked out. Geez, what a sophomoric act. Is that any way for the country that likes to think of itself as the leader of the world to act. I think it's becoming more and more obvious the Bush administration isn't interested in listening, they're a lot more interested in saber rattling, setting the stage for still another war. Earlier in the day, Bush himself addressed the UN, calling for renewed efforts to enforce the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Of course, nowhere in the speech did he mention such human rights abuses that occurred at Abu Ghraib and continue to occur at Guantanamo Bay. Can anyone say hypocrisy?
 

jb_1430

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Cite any news source to show your not just makin this shiite up as you go along

At the beginning of Iranian president Ahmadinejad's speech before the UN general assembly Tuesday, the US delegation got up and walked out. Geez, what a sophomoric act. Is that any way for the country that likes to think of itself as the leader of the world to act. I think it's becoming more and more obvious the Bush administration isn't interested in listening, they're a lot more interested in saber rattling, setting the stage for still another war. Earlier in the day, Bush himself addressed the UN, calling for renewed efforts to enforce the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Of course, nowhere in the speech did he mention such human rights abuses that occurred at Abu Ghraib and continue to occur at Guantanamo Bay. Can anyone say hypocrisy?
 
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