>>>>!!!!vote!!!!<<<<

[Unite Our Nation]

Whatever you say laughable.

 

[Unite Our Nation]

Where's the proof? Ah, poor widdle boy doesn't have anything to back it up...

 

[Sihouette]

A picture forms in my mind from reading McCain's bio, availible in print, military records and all over the internet on sources from far left to right..

He is an insolent, spoiled, rich southern military brat who's cultivated ignorance likely resulted in the death of 134 fellow shipmen and friends.

Seems sending young military enlisted home to their parents in coffins is a longstanding tradition with him..

I hear he wants to start a draft so he can bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran too.

Nothing like a hotheaded, ignorant, accident-prone, unrepentant, overweening AH for the President. He and Dubya are like clones. I'm glad Dubya ducked out of duty. I'll bet 134 shipmen and their families wished McCain did too.

 

[laughinatreps]

The people putting out these lies are sad folks with deep issues because they lost their son...

Show me PROOF, as in disciplinary action from the service! If he REALLy did what you guys are smoking pot (with obama) and imagining, he would have been thrown out of the service. THEY GAVE HIM A MEDAL.

"He was a huge screw-off," recalls Butler. "He was always on probation. The only reason he graduated was because of his father and his grandfather — they couldn't exactly get rid of him."

That should have been the end of McCain's flying career. "In the Navy, if you crashed one airplane, nine times out of 10 you would lose your wings," says Butler, who, like his former classmate, was shot down and taken prisoner in North Vietnam. Spark "a small international incident" like McCain had? Any other pilot would have "found themselves as the deck officer on a destroyer someplace in a hurry," says Butler.

"But, God, he had family pull. He was directly related to the CEO — you know?"

In 1964, while still at the base, McCain began a serious romance with Carol Shepp, a vivacious former model who had just divorced one of his classmates from Annapolis. Commandeering a Navy plane, McCain spent most weekends flying from Meridian to Philadelphia for their dates. They married the following summer.

That December, McCain crashed again. Flying back from Philadelphia, where he had joined in the reverie of the Army-Navy football game, McCain stalled while coming in for a refueling stop in Norfolk, Virginia. This time he managed to bail out at 1,000 feet. As his parachute deployed, his plane thundered into the trees below.

By now, however, McCain's flying privileges were virtually irrevocable — and he knew it. On one of his runs at McCain Field, when ground control put him in a holding pattern, the lieutenant commander once again pulled his family's rank. "Let me land," McCain demanded over his radio, "or I'll take my field and go home!"

You just don't get it do you? You don't get punished when grandpa and dad were Four Star Admirals.



ROFLMAO!!! I've got you so defensive your sitting in your basement posting every minute waiting for a response........nice life..

 

[Libsmasher]

Here are the documented facts regarding the Forrestal incident:

McCain was almost killed on July 29, 1967, when he was near the center of the Forrestal fire. He escaped from his burning jet and was trying to help another pilot escape when a bomb exploded. McCain was struck in the legs and chest by fragments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain

Re the cause of the fire on the Forrestal:

About 10:50 (local time) on the 29th, while preparations for the second strike of the day were being made near 19°9′5″N 107°23′5″E / 19.15139, 107.38472,[3] an unguided 5-inch Mk-32 "Zuni" rocket, one of four contained in a LAU-10 underwing rocket pod mounted on a F-4 Phantom II, was accidentally fired due to an electrical power surge during the switch from external power to internal power.

A drawing of the stern of Forrestal showing the spotting of aircraft at the time. Likely source of the Zuni was F-4 No. 110. White's and McCain's aircraft are in the right hand circle.The rocket flew across the flight deck, striking a wing-mounted external fuel tank on an A-4 Skyhawk awaiting launch[3], either aircraft No. 405, piloted by LCDR Fred D. White[1], or No. 416, piloted by future U.S. Senator and Presidential candidate, LCDR John McCain.[4] The warhead's safety mechanism prevented it from detonating, but the impact tore the tank off the wing and ignited the resulting spray of escaping JP-5 fuel, causing an instantaneous conflagration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forrest_Fire

Not only did McCain have NOTHING to do with the cause of the fire, he performed heroically during it, almost getting killed to rescue another pilot.

There is probably no clearer evidence of the despicable, vile character of the wingnut left than the defamation of the military service of John McCain, perhaps one of the greatest living US military heroes. There are few people who have done and sacrificed as much for their country as McCain.

 

[Sihouette]

Oh OK, so it was the one jet he dumped in the Gulf that was his fault. Not studying the manual nearly cost him his life. Good thing that crash didn't happen on a deck, it would've no doubt cost more than just McCain's life.

Good research.

 

[laughinatreps]

Not only did McCain have NOTHING to do with the cause of the fire, he performed heroically during it, almost getting killed to rescue another pilot.

There is probably no clearer evidence of the despicable, vile character of the wingnut left than the defamation of the military service of John McCain, perhaps one of the greatest living US military heroes. There are few people who have done and sacrificed as much for their country as McCain.

Yeah must have been hard sipping scotch in the ready room like EYEWITNESSES observed. I have a wikipedia account too and could add anything I like to McMavericks page.

I have to laugh about how the right wing fascists love to accuse liberals of "Blindly following the messiah terrorist" and then call McGoofnut "one of the greatest living US military heros". Do you do standup? I'll come watch your skit, it must be hilarious.

 

[Libsmasher]

Yeah must have been hard sipping scotch in the ready room like EYEWITNESSES observed. I have a wikipedia account too and could add anything I like to McMavericks page.

I have to laugh about how the right wing fascists love to accuse liberals of "Blindly following the messiah terrorist" and then call McGoofnut "one of the greatest living US military heros". Do you do standup? I'll come watch your skit, it must be hilarious.

McCain's actions are in the official naval record. Where is your slander from - the Huffington Post? Moveon.org? Air America?

You haven't provided any references from a reputable credible source. You are a gutless coward and a pussy. You belong to the class of leftwing trolls who slander with the cover of the anonymity of the internet. You would never deliver your lies in person - you know you'd get your pasty-faced obamawingnut ass knocked flat on the pavement.

 

[TruthAboveAll]

First, I'm not trying to say that McCain was a model pilot, military man, politician or a man in general. I'm not trying to say that he didn't realize benefits from the military experience and positions of his father and grandfather.

But the denigration of the left based on anyone or anything in his past is absolutely ridiculous and shameful. As for your "sources" of "fact", they are extremely questionable, based on their own track record and underlying agendas. RollingStone magazine is unabashedly liberal, and a front for liberal issues and causes. They are unquestionably in the tank for Obama.

By now, everybody must know that Rolling Stone magazine has the hots for Barack Obama. One need only look at the hagiographic articles and iconographic covers of the Anointed One which have graced the pop culture rag over the past two years. No longer content at tossing up puff-piece interviews like this, the magazine has decided to take up the cudgels on behalf of its candidate by going after John McCain's character.

In an October 16 cover story entitled "Make-Believe Maverick", contributing editor (and Mother Jones alumnus) Tim Dickinson attempts the demolition of McCain, hook, line and sinker--faux war hero, faux "maverick," corrupt politician, pampered child of privilege using his connections to get ahead. It's powerful stuff--if you could spread it on your tomato plants, you'd have a bumper crop. Stuart Koehl, Daily Standard

Their source for this article LTC John Dramesi. Dramesi is an incredibly honorable man, and one who conducted himself 'by the book' in his service and in his time as POW. The 'Code of Conduct' cited that McCain failed so miserably (in comparison to Dramesi) is one that was near impossible to adhere to.

Dramesi, however, is a very controversial figure within the POW community, as indicated in an "A Question of Honor", a book review published in Air University Review in 1977. As the author of the review, himself a Vietnam POW, writes:

John Dramesi wrote the book. That he is its hero is admissible. But there were more tough men in Hanoi than he would lead you to believe. . . Dramesi's . . . own physical and mental strength [was] so singular and of such forcefulness that he apparently could not comprehend or tolerate the performance of those who could not match it. One wonders how he interpreted Admiral Stockdale's prison mandate: "unity over self."

Dickinson does not mention, in his breathless recounting of Dramesi's two escape attempts that, as a result of his actions, all the POWs in Dramesi's camp were subjected to harsh punishments, causing the senior POWs there to place strict conditions (including the possibility of outside assistance) on all future escape attempts. Dramesi apparently opposed this ruling, because it was a technical violation of the Code of Conduct (a prisoner shall always endeavor to escape and return to duty), but the camp leadership made a pragmatic decision based upon the probability of success and the costs of failure.

The same code was rewritten:

Dickinson also does not relate that after the Vietnam War, the Code of Conduct was itself revised in light of the POW experience. Rather than insisting on Dramesi-like literal adherence, it recognized that every man has a breaking point, beyond which he cannot be pushed.

The criticisms of McCain take his conduct and experiences totally out of context, and totally out of what was considered the norms of the time. Family connections, cavalier attitude, immaturity - these are all well known facts about young John McCain, but:

...What Dickinson attempts to do, however, is undermine John McCain's reputation as a competent naval officer.

To do this, he puts forward a flurry of misleading anecdotes and false statements. For instance: After an incident in which McCain deviates from his flight path and collides with power lines over Italy, Dickinson quotes Phil Butler, another POW who lived in McCain's dorm in Annapolis:

"That should have been the end of McCain's flying career. In the Navy, if you crashed one airplane, nine times out of 10 you would lose your wings," says Butler, who, like his former classmate, was shot down and taken prisoner in North Vietnam.

Butler, whose reputation among other POWs is not sterling (Dickinson omits that Butler has been an Obama partisan since before McCain even won the Republican nomination), is telling an outright lie here, especially for the time at which McCain was flying....

(All quotes are from the above linked Night of the (Character) Assassins in The Daily Standard article.)

And contradictory to some of the claims that Viet Nam POW's do not support McCain (as in 'so where are all the POW's supporting him?) they are out there. Here are some in the Washington Times.

If you want to continue to utilize your partisan sources with their blatantly obvious agendas, fine. But don't expect anyone here who is willing to dig a little deeper to accept the lies, half-baked half-truths and innuendos as any type of damning evidence. The real crime here is that this tripe has been allowed to go unchallenged.

 

[laughinatreps]

But the denigration of the left based on anyone or anything in his past is absolutely ridiculous and shameful.

But yet the right denigrates Obama as a terrorist solely based upon someone in his past?..........time to smell what you've been shoveling...

As for your "sources" of "fact", they are extremely questionable, based on their own track record and underlying agendas. RollingStone magazine is unabashedly liberal, and a front for liberal issues and causes. They are unquestionably in the tank for Obama.

Yeah and the "Daily Source" as you have quoted so prominently is unbiased......roflmao like I said, smell what you shovel.....

Their source for this article LTC John Dramesi. Dramesi is an incredibly honorable man, and one who conducted himself 'by the book' in his service and in his time as POW. The 'Code of Conduct' cited that McCain failed so miserably (in comparison to Dramesi) is one that was near impossible to adhere to.

Gee, how about:

Larry Wilkenson, Colnel US Army
Rita Hauser, President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board from 2001 to 2004
Lincoln Chafee, former GOP senator
Phil Butler, lived across the hall from McCain at the academy
Bill Black, deputy director of the Federal Savings and Loan Insurance Corporation
Tom Gosinski, a young Republican, kept a detailed journal while working as director of government affairs for the charity....When Cindy McCain suddenly fired Gosinski, he turned his journal over to the Drug Enforcement Administration
Bradley Smith, former chair of the Federal Election Commission
Dan Schnur, McCain's press man during the 2000 campaign

Need I go on.....source theory debunked....

If you want to continue to utilize your partisan sources with their blatantly obvious agendas, fine. But don't expect anyone here who is willing to dig a little deeper to accept the lies, half-baked half-truths and innuendos as any type of damning evidence. The real crime here is that this tripe has been allowed to go unchallenged.

mirrors must suck in your world...

 

[TruthAboveAll]

But yet the right denigrates Obama as a terrorist solely based upon someone in his past?..........time to smell what you've been shoveling...



Yeah and the "Daily Source" as you have quoted so prominently is unbiased......roflmao like I said, smell what you shovel.....

I have never once denigrated Obama as a terrorist solely based upon someone in his past. I do question the number of highly troubling individuals in his past, along with a multitude of questions remaining unanswered, and what all these could mean about a enigmatic candidate who continues to be a hidden book. I find this troubling, but not in the directly accusatory way you posit.

My shovel smells absolutely rosey, thank you, compared to the putrid stench of that crap you're working with. The Daily Standard is admittedly Conservative leaning, but it is also committed to doing their best to deal with facts. They can often be as critical of Republicans as Democrats, of Conservatives as well as Liberals.

Gee, how about:

Larry Wilkenson, Colnel US Army

I assume you mean WILKERSON; his history is as Republican; there are numerous issues here. I have no reason to doubt his sincerity, but there is plenty of reason to question his judgment and motives. He is a study of contradictions and using flawed logic to draw conclusions.

Rita Hauser, President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board from 2001 to 2004

Uh, sure, right. Ms. Hauser, "activist"; PLO apologist & supporter; registered foreign agent of Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority; funding for Edward Said chair at Columbia for Rashid Khalidi (Hauser: "I like him very much. He's a splendid guy"; instrumental in Oslo Peace Accords (resulting murder of more than 1,400 Jews. amd in an Oct.14, 2003 C-SPAN2 speech, she told her audience, "It's a moral duty to speak out against Israel" followed by "The Oslo Process was the best thing that ever happened to Israel!" ... "a joyous moment."); one of three prominant Republicans at the center of "Republicans for Obama". RINO - No credibility.

Lincoln Chafee, former GOP senator

For real? You're serious? FORMER Republican, another member of those solid, down-to-earth Republicans for Obama. Yeah, just oozing with credibility.

Phil Butler, lived across the hall from McCain at the academy

Although questioning the use of the time, I had the courtesy to actually read the source/link you provided. I can see that you did not do the same, as I included the info on Butler.

To do this, he puts forward a flurry of misleading anecdotes and false statements. For instance: After an incident in which McCain deviates from his flight path and collides with power lines over Italy, Dickinson quotes Phil Butler, another POW who lived in McCain's dorm in Annapolis:

"That should have been the end of McCain's flying career. In the Navy, if you crashed one airplane, nine times out of 10 you would lose your wings," says Butler, who, like his former classmate, was shot down and taken prisoner in North Vietnam.

Butler, whose reputation among other POWs is not sterling (Dickinson omits that Butler has been an Obama partisan since before McCain even won the Republican nomination), is telling an outright lie here, especially for the time at which McCain was flying....

For heaven's sake, I wish you guys would at least try to seek some views that challenge your position. But that would also require you to actually READ something with the intent of DISCERNING something that might help you improve your position. You've no desire to gain truth, share truth, and influence others with truth; your desire is simply to go to your party and drink the Kool Aid with your herd fellows of like mines... no, that's too polite a term... make it clone-quality mines.


.

Bill Black, deputy director of the Federal Savings and Loan Insurance Corporation.

Bill Black, S&L's, Keating 5 - Senate Ethics Committee investigated and found which concluded only that he had exercised "poor judgment." Questionable at best to being able to add anything significant.

Tom Gosinski, a young Republican, kept a detailed journal while working as director of government affairs for the charity....When Cindy McCain suddenly fired Gosinski, he turned his journal over to the Drug Enforcement Administration

TG works for CM. TG discovers that this "very sad, lonely woman" and following some back problems developed a drug problem. So when CM discovers TG is keeping detailed journal with the intent to write a book. With emphasis on her personal struggles and knowledge that he is gossiping about her to other staffers, she fires him. So TG the Compassionate takes said journal and turns it over to DEA.

Now TG seeks $250,000 from CM for wrongful dismissal. (Huh? Egregious disloyalty to employer is not grounds for dismissal?) Cm & husband JM feel this could very well be extortion, and want it investigated. The prosecutors after discovery felt that due to his knowledge and extraneous involvement, extortion charges were not predicated. So the McCain's let that drop. Eventually, TG exhausted his resources for his $250k claim, and let that drop also. He continues to seem to be trying to find a way to, possibly, sell his story and recoup some of his losses.

If you want to consider that a trustworthy source, fine. I don't.

Bradley Smith, former chair of the Federal Election Commission

Hour is late, and I've not time to dig on this right now. Seems that he is a "casual critic". Much like I might criticize my good friend for being the "pot who's calling the kettle black"

Dan Schnur, McCain's press man during the 2000 campaign

Again, Dan seems to be a mild critic. One of many people who have noted that McCain can have a bit of a temper, largely connected with his physical disabilities. I agree, that can be an issue. But though a moot point now, I think it is a relatively small issue.

Need I go on.....source theory debunked....



mirrors must suck in your world...

Sorry, my "theory" as you call it is not debunked. It's not a theory, it's an analysis of opposing information against purposed claims you made. If you would bother to look for these yourself, instead of ones that pad your position and give you those warm fuzzies, you might find yourself with more of a balanced perspective.

Mirrors work just fine in my world. I use them all the time, reviewing my perspective, sometimes seeing new things that I'd missed at first glance. I don't expect to look in my mirror and find perfection. I expect to find a work in progress. Operative word there - progress. I can easily admit to perceived shortcomings of my candidate, I can even be critical on some issues. It's too bad that your time rarely shows anything close to that ability.