Were and are socialist experiments beneficial to their respective inhabitants?

[mark francis]

low wages? what ae you talking about, moron? lol
per capita income, ppp basis, is $21K, that's hardly "low wages". top 1/3 of the world, just behind capitalistic and oil rich mexico.

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

considering where they were in the 1970s, its a ;huge improvement. its 600 times higher than then. economically its a huge success story, 800 MILLION people lifted out of poverty.

you just can't get past your need to hate china. lol.

What value is there in touting China's wealth while there remain more than 3 million slaves in China helping boost that wealth?

 

[Stalin]

As most modern capitalist "history" is written by rich men's bitches, it is far more illuminating to consult marxist historians
who at least have a scientific method for analysing economic data.

Nobody is going to pretend that the Soviet Union was a complete success, but the steadfast accomplishments of comrade putin
in reversing the pilfering of the peoples assets by junior members of the khrushev-brezhnev revisionist clique is a worthy
footnote to the claims of bankruptcy.

One only has to compared the debts of Russia and the US to see who really won the cold war.

A good place to start is the marxist historian eric hobsbawm.

Eric Hobsbawm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Comrade Stalin
Donbass

 

[mark francis]

As most modern capitalist "history" is written by rich men's bitches, it is far more illuminating to consult marxist historians
who at least have a scientific method for analysing economic data.

Nobody is going to pretend that the Soviet Union was a complete success, but the steadfast accomplishments of comrade putin
in reversing the pilfering of the peoples assets by junior members of the khrushev-brezhnev revisionist clique is a worthy
footnote to the claims of bankruptcy.

One only has to compared the debts of Russia and the US to see who really won the cold war.

A good place to start is the marxist historian eric hobsbawm.

Eric Hobsbawm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Comrade Stalin
Donbass

The USSR went bankrupt more than 30 years ago. Forced labor, regulated wages, and oppression of freedoms do not make good foundations for healthy and happy economies.

 

[Redflag]

is china a failed experiment?

No, sir or madam, China is not a failed socialist experiment. After all, not only does the People's Republic of China still exist, but as you allude to above, the Chinese Revolution is nearing the elimination of poverty in China. It took an average life expectancy in 1949 of 36 years and increased to 77.30 years in 2022, an increase of 0.22% from 2020. In the U.S., average life expectancy fell from 77 years in 2019 to 76.1 in 2022.
China also has the world's second-largest GDP, while in 1949, China's economy was in shambles.
So, no, "socialism with Chinese characteristics" is anything but a failed system. It isn't something that works well for anti-communists, but it is working well for the majority of the Chinese people, and that's all that matters.

I should also say that although many former socialist states no longer exist, that is not to say they were failed socialist experiments. Like socialist revolutions in the Soviet Union and China, their correlatives in Cuba, the German Democratic Republic, the balance of the Soviet Block, Mongolia, Vietnam, Ghana, Senegal, Burkina Faso, etc., lifted hundreds of millions of human beings out of poverty. Those changes in socioeconomic relations also served to significantly reduce illiteracy, infant mortality, neo-natal death, unemployment, homelessness, and even racism and sexism.
And in some societies where communism no longer exists, communism's positive legacies live on. In the Czech Republic and other former "Eastern Bloc" countries, for example, women are still granted maternity leaves of up to three (3) years, for their present capitalist governments became convinced of the benefits to society such generous maternity benefits provide. Compare that to the U.S., where maternity leave is virtually nonexistent, and the social landscape suffers accordingly.

To be sure, a socialist revolution is not a one-off event. It is a dialectical process that unfolds throughout time and various other socialist revolutions. They didn't fail in that they enriched the lives of millions in their time and served as guideposts for future socialist revolutions.

 

[Redflag]

The USSR went bankrupt in 1991

Yes, although I don't know how it relates to what I wrote, that is correct.

 

[the annoying thing]

low wages? what ae you talking about, moron? lol
per capita income, ppp basis, is $21K, that's hardly "low wages". top 1/3 of the world, just behind capitalistic and oil rich mexico.

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

considering where they were in the 1970s, its a ;huge improvement. its 600 times higher than then. economically its a huge success story, 800 MILLION people lifted out of poverty.

you just can't get past your need to hate china. lol.

lol I do not know where you came up with those numbers but mine are totally different lug nut

.https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/workers-endured-long-hours-low-pay-at-chinese-factory-used-by-ivanka-trumps-clothing-maker/2017/04/25/b6fe6608-2924-11e7-b605-33413c691853_story.html

62.00 a week for factory worker is not much lug nut

China: hourly minimum wage by region 2023 | Statista

In 2023, minimum wages in China varied between 25.3 yuan per hour in Beijing and 15.2 yuan per hour in Qinghai.

www.statista.com

I see where you messed up thinking it was K when its yen lol dumb ass.

wise.com › cny-to-usd-rate300 Chinese yuan rmb to US dollars - Wise​

Conversion rates US Dollar / Chinese Yuan RMB. Convert 300 CNY to USD with the Wise Currency Converter. Analyze historical currency charts or live Chinese yuan rmb / US dollar rat
And if you look at my other posts you can see where they make about 21 yen a hour .

 

[the annoying thing]

No, sir or madam, China is not a failed socialist experiment. After all, not only does the People's Republic of China still exist, but as you allude to above, the Chinese Revolution is nearing the elimination of poverty in China. It took an average life expectancy in 1949 of 36 years and increased to 77.30 years in 2022, an increase of 0.22% from 2020. In the U.S., average life expectancy fell from 77 years in 2019 to 76.1 in 2022.
China also has the world's second-largest GDP, while in 1949, China's economy was in shambles.
So, no, "socialism with Chinese characteristics" is anything but a failed system. It isn't something that works well for anti-communists, but it is working well for the majority of the Chinese people, and that's all that matters.

I should also say that although many former socialist states no longer exist, that is not to say they were failed socialist experiments. Like socialist revolutions in the Soviet Union and China, their correlatives in Cuba, the German Democratic Republic, the balance of the Soviet Block, Mongolia, Vietnam, Ghana, Senegal, Burkina Faso, etc., lifted hundreds of millions of human beings out of poverty. Those changes in socioeconomic relations also served to significantly reduce illiteracy, infant mortality, neo-natal death, unemployment, homelessness, and even racism and sexism.
And in some societies where communism no longer exists, communism's positive legacies live on. In the Czech Republic and other former "Eastern Bloc" countries, for example, women are still granted maternity leaves of up to three (3) years, for their present capitalist governments became convinced of the benefits to society such generous maternity benefits provide. Compare that to the U.S., where maternity leave is virtually nonexistent, and the social landscape suffers accordingly.

To be sure, a socialist revolution is not a one-off event. It is a dialectical process that unfolds throughout time and various other socialist revolutions. They didn't fail in that they enriched the lives of millions in their time and served as guideposts for future socialist revolutions.

yes its failed .

 

[mark francis]

No, sir or madam, China is not a failed socialist experiment. After all, not only does the People's Republic of China still exist, but as you allude to above, the Chinese Revolution is nearing the elimination of poverty in China. It took an average life expectancy in 1949 of 36 years and increased to 77.30 years in 2022, an increase of 0.22% from 2020. In the U.S., average life expectancy fell from 77 years in 2019 to 76.1 in 2022.
China also has the world's second-largest GDP, while in 1949, China's economy was in shambles.
So, no, "socialism with Chinese characteristics" is anything but a failed system. It isn't something that works well for anti-communists, but it is working well for the majority of the Chinese people, and that's all that matters.

I should also say that although many former socialist states no longer exist, that is not to say they were failed socialist experiments. Like socialist revolutions in the Soviet Union and China, their correlatives in Cuba, the German Democratic Republic, the balance of the Soviet Block, Mongolia, Vietnam, Ghana, Senegal, Burkina Faso, etc., lifted hundreds of millions of human beings out of poverty. Those changes in socioeconomic relations also served to significantly reduce illiteracy, infant mortality, neo-natal death, unemployment, homelessness, and even racism and sexism.
And in some societies where communism no longer exists, communism's positive legacies live on. In the Czech Republic and other former "Eastern Bloc" countries, for example, women are still granted maternity leaves of up to three (3) years, for their present capitalist governments became convinced of the benefits to society such generous maternity benefits provide. Compare that to the U.S., where maternity leave is virtually nonexistent, and the social landscape suffers accordingly.

To be sure, a socialist revolution is not a one-off event. It is a dialectical process that unfolds throughout time and various other socialist revolutions. They didn't fail in that they enriched the lives of millions in their time and served as guideposts for future socialist revolutions.

What good is a country that eliminates poverty for millions while also enslaving millions?

 

[Redflag]

What good is a country that eliminates poverty for millions while also enslaving millions?

I addressed that issue in response to a question Mark Francis posed in a message listed above. I wrote: "Although an estimated 5.5 million Chinese peasants are indeed compelled to work as chattel slaves and sex slaves, it is a function of highly illegal behaviors carried out by certain capitalists that are in no way condoned by the CCP. China constitutes an enormous landmass and a gigantic population that is difficult to control. However, the Chinese government has made headway against these antisocial practices and continues to do so."

Good evening.
Be well.
Redflag

 

[mark francis]

I addressed that issue in response to a question Mark Francis posed in a message listed above. I wrote: "Although an estimated 5.5 million Chinese peasants are indeed compelled to work as chattel slaves and sex slaves, it is a function of highly illegal behaviors carried out by certain capitalists that are in no way condoned by the CCP. China constitutes an enormous landmass and a gigantic population that is difficult to control. However, the Chinese government has made headway against these antisocial practices and continues to do so."

Good evening.
Be well.
Redflag

The CCP condones slavery in China, or it would be abolished. Slavery was abolished in the US a hundred and fifty years ago in spite of Democrat opposition so certainly the CCP could abolish slavery if the CCP found slavery distasteful.

 

[pjmret]

The CCP condones slavery in China, or it would be abolished. Slavery was abolished in the US a hundred and fifty years ago in spite of Democrat opposition so certainly the CCP could abolish slavery if the CCP found slavery distasteful.

in spite of southern conservative christian opposition. lol.

every time you say "democrat" when talking about 1860, i'm going to point out how parties have changed.
I know you right wing morons think you can smear today's democrats with actions from 1860, but you are only making yourself look stupid.

why does the bible condone slavey? you never addressed that aspect of your evil god

 

[mark francis]

in spite of southern conservative christian opposition. lol.

every time you say "democrat" when talking about 1860, i'm going to point out how parties have changed.
I know you right wing morons think you can smear today's democrats with actions from 1860, but you are only making yourself look stupid.

why does the bible condone slavey? you never addressed that aspect of your evil god

You cannot quote a single God-honoring Bible-believing conservative Christian who supported slavery. And no, liberal church members who support abominations like abortion and sodomy are not God-honoring. Let me offer what Christians who stood on slavery like those I associate with or would have associated with said about slavery:

7 Christian men or movements who helped end slavery in America | Voice (christianpost.com) 6-19-23

7 Christian men or movements who helped end slavery in America
5. Lyman Beecher

Lyman Beecher (1775 -1863) targeted slavery as one of the chief sins he aimed to eradicate in the new United States. In 1804 Beecher wrote, The Practicality of Suppressing Vice by Means of Societies Instituted for that Purpose. Around 1813, he founded the Connecticut Society for the Suppression of Vice and the Promotion of Good Morals. His strategy was to use voluntary societies to affect a moral revolution in America and one of the chief sins to be conquered was slavery. William Lloyd Garrison (1805-1879) joined the church that Beecher pastored and was motivated by Beecher’s preaching to support of the American Antislavery Society, although Beecher was an incrementalist and Garrison was an “immediatist.” Beecher’s daughter, Harriet Beecher Stowe (1811-1896), wrote the influential anti-slavery novel Uncle Tom’s Cabin.

 

[pjmret]

You cannot quote a single God-honoring Bible-believing conservative Christian who supported slavery. And no, liberal church members who support abominations like abortion and sodomy are not God-honoring. Let me offer what Christians who stood on slavery like those I associate with or would have associated with said about slavery:

7 Christian men or movements who helped end slavery in America | Voice (christianpost.com) 6-19-23

7 Christian men or movements who helped end slavery in America
5. Lyman Beecher

Lyman Beecher (1775 -1863) targeted slavery as one of the chief sins he aimed to eradicate in the new United States. In 1804 Beecher wrote, The Practicality of Suppressing Vice by Means of Societies Instituted for that Purpose. Around 1813, he founded the Connecticut Society for the Suppression of Vice and the Promotion of Good Morals. His strategy was to use voluntary societies to affect a moral revolution in America and one of the chief sins to be conquered was slavery. William Lloyd Garrison (1805-1879) joined the church that Beecher pastored and was motivated by Beecher’s preaching to support of the American Antislavery Society, although Beecher was an incrementalist and Garrison was an “immediatist.” Beecher’s daughter, Harriet Beecher Stowe (1811-1896), wrote the influential anti-slavery novel Uncle Tom’s Cabin.

the us was nearly all christians back then, and slavery was widespread and even in the constitution.

if you want to be a total moron and claim that christians didn't support slavery, be my guest.

of course not all christians did, no one is denying that, and posting that fact is a stupid attempt to try and deflect from the widespread support of slavery by christians.

even god condoned slavery in the bible, and you can't deny that. lol

 

[mark francis]

the us was nearly all christians back then, and slavery was widespread and even in the constitution.

Wrong. The US churches were divided back then just as they are today, and there were many Americans in American early days who were not Christians. Just read what antagonists claim about American not being founded as a Christian nation.

even god condoned slavery in the bible, and you can't deny that. lol

Slavery in Biblical times was not like slavery in the US. For example, even free people sold themselves into slavery in order to keep from starving. American slaves did not sell themselves into slavery to keep from starving.

 

[pjmret]

Wrong. The US churches were divided back then just as they are today, and there were many Americans in American early days who were not Christians. Just read what antagonists claim about American not being founded as a Christian nation.

Slavery in Biblical times was not like slavery in the US. For example, even free people sold themselves into slavery in order to keep from starving. American slaves did not sell themselves into slavery to keep from starving.

So there was no involuntary slaverybin ancient times?
Of course there was moron
And God condoned it sadly

God you are stupid