Why solar power is insanity.....

[PLC1]

Ya, more likely people would burn trash in their fire place, burn whale oil in the lamps, and ride a horse to work. Oh, ya, and have ice blocks delivered to put in the refrigerator to keep it cold. Sound familiar?

I've heard of that, but even I am not old enough to remember it.

 

[Dr.Who]

I'm picturing urban dwellers going through the dumpsters looking for combustible items to run generators so they don't have to buy electricity.

Somehow, it's really difficult to picture this happening in the real world.

The alternative is to buy power from large corporations at outrageous prices. Whatever happens will happen.

 

[PLC1]

The alternative is to buy power from large corporations at outrageous prices. Whatever happens will happen.

If prices get that outrageous, then solar panels just might become economically viable. The idea that rummaging through dumpsters, then burning whatever is found there in order to fuel a (what? steam powered?) generator is going to be cheaper is absurd.

 

[Dr.Who]

If prices get that outrageous, then solar panels just might become economically viable. The idea that rummaging through dumpsters, then burning whatever is found there in order to fuel a (what? steam powered?) generator is going to be cheaper is absurd.

These people

http://www.allenergies.net/biomass/generator.html

built their own from other parts. It burns either wood or gas or any other "biomass" that you want to put in it.

After the cost of construction burning trash would make the electricity free. It is already cheaper.

But you are right that high utility costs would make the panels more attractive. Will they ever be attractive enough at the huge price they presently cost to produce the tiny amounts of DC current that they presently produce?

I mean, have you actually checked out what these things cost at your local big box store? It is ridiculous.

 

[PLC1]

These people

http://www.allenergies.net/biomass/generator.html

built their own from other parts. It burns either wood or gas or any other "biomass" that you want to put in it.

After the cost of construction burning trash would make the electricity free. It is already cheaper.

But you are right that high utility costs would make the panels more attractive. Will they ever be attractive enough at the huge price they presently cost to produce the tiny amounts of DC current that they presently produce?

I mean, have you actually checked out what these things cost at your local big box store? It is ridiculous.

I have, yes, as mentioned above.

I've heard that cheaper solar panels are being developed. If the cost comes down enough, then we'll probably see a lot of them on the roofs of houses and buildings. Around here, the time when the sun is the hottest is exactly when we're using the most electricity. Solar panels could help out during our summer afternoons, they just have to be more affordable first.

 

[Dr.Who]

I have, yes, as mentioned above.

I've heard that cheaper solar panels are being developed. If the cost comes down enough, then we'll probably see a lot of them on the roofs of houses and buildings. Around here, the time when the sun is the hottest is exactly when we're using the most electricity. Solar panels could help out during our summer afternoons, they just have to be more affordable first.

I agree that they need to be more affordable. I am looking forward to that day. They also need to produce more power.

 

[Hobo1]

I've heard that cheaper solar panels are being developed. If the cost comes down enough, then we'll probably see a lot of them on the roofs of houses and buildings. Around here, the time when the sun is the hottest is exactly when we're using the most electricity. Solar panels could help out during our summer afternoons, they just have to be more affordable first.

I think the correct term is solar systems. Solar panels are just one component of the whole system. Inverters and controllers are required to constantly control the flow of electricity to the house. It is a complicated process to take varying amounts of electricity coming from solar panels (which drop when a cloud covers the sun) and feed it into the house. At the same time, the house electrical demand is rapidly rising and falling every time you turn on an appliance. Third and forth components come when you add batteries or feed excess electricity back to the electrical grid.

All those controllers must handle high electrical loads so they require expensive electrical components - not the average transistor, etc. used in your TV and computer. And don't forget the electrical codes to make everything 100% safe.

It's not cheap to operate your own little power company at your house.

 

[PLC1]

I think the correct term is solar systems. Solar panels are just one component of the whole system. Inverters and controllers are required to constantly control the flow of electricity to the house. It is a complicated process to take varying amounts of electricity coming from solar panels (which drop when a cloud covers the sun) and feed it into the house. At the same time, the house electrical demand is rapidly rising and falling every time you turn on an appliance. Third and forth components come when you add batteries or feed excess electricity back to the electrical grid.

All those controllers must handle high electrical loads so they require expensive electrical components - not the average transistor, etc. used in your TV and computer. And don't forget the electrical codes to make everything 100% safe.

It's not cheap to operate your own little power company at your house.

No, it isn't . It's not cheap to buy power from the grid, either, particularly during peak demand.

 

[TruthSeeker]

In the northeast, heating oil is used by the majority of the homes. Hot water heating systems via a boiler fueled by heating oil (which is diesel fuel). Plenty of wood around these parts, so many people have wood-fueled boiler systems, and just about every home has a wood stove and/or fireplace.

 

[Dr.Who]

In the northeast, heating oil is used by the majority of the homes. Hot water heating systems via a boiler fueled by heating oil (which is diesel fuel). Plenty of wood around these parts, so many people have wood-fueled boiler systems, and just about every home has a wood stove and/or fireplace.

I live in the midwest.

I have a wood burning fireplace, a gas burning fireplace, a gas furnace, an electric floor, and a small portable generator.

Next on my list is to make the connections so that my generator can run my furnace's fan.

At that point I will have in order:

Electric for convenience when it is running
Gas for affordability
Wood for pleasure
A generator for when only the electric is out
Wood in case both the electric and gas are out

If I had solar it would probably make the most sense to connect it to the floor. Assuming the watts and volts (or whatever was needed) could get high enough it would not matter if it ran intermittently (i.e. I would not need the cost and waste of batteries) as it would still create savings for me. I suspect it would take a number of years for money saved to pay for the cost of installation.

 

[PLC1]

I live in the San Joaquin Valley. I have a central air that runs on electricity and costs an arm and a leg, a natural gas furnace that is pretty inexpensive, but isn't needed for more than three or four months of the year, and a wood burning fireplace that mostly serves for atmosphere, but can help when the power goes out in winter.

So, every part of the country has different needs. What is going to help in one place may not in another.

Even with that electricity hog but very essential air conditioner, solar panels don't make economic sense for me, at least not yet.

 

[Dr.Who]

I live in the San Joaquin Valley. I have a central air that runs on electricity and costs an arm and a leg, a natural gas furnace that is pretty inexpensive, but isn't needed for more than three or four months of the year, and a wood burning fireplace that mostly serves for atmosphere, but can help when the power goes out in winter.

So, every part of the country has different needs. What is going to help in one place may not in another.

Even with that electricity hog but very essential air conditioner, solar panels don't make economic sense for me, at least not yet.

YOu are right that everyone has different needs.

Wouldn't solar panels make the most sense for people with small needs for electricity rather than for people with large needs? I mean, if all you use electric for is light bulbs then you could set up panels and go off the grid pretty easily. But running the motor on your furnace in the winter and the AC in the summer is a pretty tough bill to fill.

When I visited Zion National Park they had a cooling system that used evaporation of water to cool a building. Wouldn't that work for you in the San Joaquin Valley?

 

[PLC1]

YOu are right that everyone has different needs.

Wouldn't solar panels make the most sense for people with small needs for electricity rather than for people with large needs? I mean, if all you use electric for is light bulbs then you could set up panels and go off the grid pretty easily. But running the motor on your furnace in the winter and the AC in the summer is a pretty tough bill to fill.

When I visited Zion National Park they had a cooling system that used evaporation of water to cool a building. Wouldn't that work for you in the San Joaquin Valley?

Evaporative coolers have been around for a long time, and are cheaper to run than air conditioners. They are OK up to about 95 degrees or so as long as the humidity stays low. After that, they just make the house muggy and unpleasant. Moreover, they are noisy. Central air is much better.

What makes sense is solar panels that produce energy when it is needed most, which means, in the middle of summer afternoons at least here. Cheaper panels might not get us off of the grid altogether, but they could save on the electric bill and help prevent those "brown outs" that happen when there is a real heat wave.

 

[Dr.Who]

Evaporative coolers have been around for a long time, and are cheaper to run than air conditioners. They are OK up to about 95 degrees or so as long as the humidity stays low. After that, they just make the house muggy and unpleasant. Moreover, they are noisy. Central air is much better.

What makes sense is solar panels that produce energy when it is needed most, which means, in the middle of summer afternoons at least here. Cheaper panels might not get us off of the grid altogether, but they could save on the electric bill and help prevent those "brown outs" that happen when there is a real heat wave.

Only 95 huh?

 

[PLC1]

Only 95 huh?

Yep. Average daytime high temp here in July is 99.

And this is cooler than the southern deserts, like Palm Springs. I was there for a meeting once in March, when the temp was over 100 degrees. Yet, it is seen as a high end place to live, why, I'll never know.