Why such a stigma?

Furious George

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2006
As we all know, the main talking point of the Conservative/Republican party is taxes. They seem to think that the lower your taxes, the more patriotic you are. But if they are so patriotic, why not pay a little more of your salary for your country?

My question is--Why is there such a stigma between taxes and the Conservatives?
Most true conservatives (hence, no neo-cons) believe the state should be fiscally responsible and use the money in the most effective way.

I also think you can be patriotic, love your country and pay lower taxes.

It's the "love your country, fear your government" motto.
Lowering taxes is (in theory) a forcing function to reduce the size and control of the federal government. The republicans want a small government for a few key reasons:

1) Lower taxes reduce the burden on the people who are the most productive.

2) Smaller government requires people to fend more for themselves than in some more socialized states, ultimately making them more productive.

3) A smaller government is less intrusive on individual liberties and rights (similar to the libertarian point of view, but less extreme)

4) Conservatives are big on state control, so you shouldnt need as large of a federal government.

5) They're also big on the idea that the government does things less efficently than the private sector, so you should push as much to private industry as possible, keeping it out of government.

What we've seen recently is that theory and reality are pretty different, and cutting taxes does not constrain congresses ability or willingness to spend, and we just get ourselves into a load of debt and end up with big government anyway. :(
I've noticed the same thing about some Republicans. I know a couple who has given me a really hard time about objecting to the war in Iraq. They support the US's presence there, and the war in general. A war that is costing billions. But... they don't want to help pay for it. They don't believe they should have to pay taxes. They pay all at the end of the year (rather than pay as they go and look forward to a refund, like most people), because "why let the government use our money for a whole year?"

I can't see how they can be both these things at once. It doesn't make any sense to me.
Sadly, I'm under the impression that this is a very common double-standard.
>>They don't believe they should have to pay taxes. They pay all at the end of the year (rather than pay as they go and look forward to a refund, like most people), because "why let the government use our money for a whole year?"<<

There's a difference in not believing in paying taxes and paying them differently from the way you might think is right. I'm another one who doesn't pay quarterly and wait for a refund ...I subscribe to the same theory that I'd rather have my money work as I want it to rather than letting the IRS do it for me. I also back the war effort. So, why is it a double standard if I am paying my taxes?
Is our government really "our country?"

They don't like taxes because the government wastes our money. They're right for once!
The inconsistency is in backing something that the government is paying for and not backing the government by not wanting to pay for it. You can't say that the government's war effort is well directed if you don't think you should be paying for it, unless you believe that money grows on trees, or that you're really not from their country. It's not a double-standard if you're actually paying the taxes, or in Martyr's case, if you don't want to pay because you don't like the way the government spends it. Since I'm completely unfamiliar with the US taxation system, I was just referring to the statement the aforementioned couple didn't want to pay at all.

That raises the question, apart from the rebate, what fundamental differences are there to paying periodically and paying annually?
If you are self-employed or don't have taxes withheld by an employer, you are supposed to pre-pay toward your annual tax bill on a quarterly basis. That said, you can just pay your tax bill at the end of the year as a whole.
There's a division on people who believe that one way is better than another. I'm one of the ones who feel like as long as I pay my tax bill that if I want to invest that money in a different way during the year and perhaps make more from it than getting a non-interest paying refund at the end of the year (if I've paid quarterly), then it's okay. Either way, you're paying the proper amount.
I am not sure the various ways of paying the taxes or the legal ramifications of them. Though I guess so long as Vicki's way is legal and is not trying to avoid paying the full amount it is probably OK. Anyways I just get them withheld every paycheck and usually recieve a few hundred dollars back in April.

As for the war effort and taxes funny enough over on yahoo groups i have met people who were 100% pro-war yet considered all taxes theft and were opposed to them. Their is certainly a very big disconnect here as well as amongst many conservatives I think.
It is almost laughable the way people want everything for free. Besides the war-effort--
Throw those criminals in prison and throw away the key, but don't tax me for housing them.
Get all of the homeless off the street but, don't tax me to help them get housing and education.
Get all drug addicts into treatment but, don't tax me to pay for their stay.
Let's give all kids a fair education but, don't tax me to pay for their teachers and books.
America needs to quit the bitchin' or pay the bill.
Am I wrong here or could it be the plain fact people don't like to pay taxes because they are living paycheck to paycheck as it is. I mean when everything else around you from sales tax, to house tax to the price of gas and just the cost of living going up and then they want to tax you more makes it kind of hard for people to get behind certain taxes. That and the fact is sometimes you cannot help but wonder are they using are taxes for what they say they are using them for in the end? I have no problem paying taxes if they are going to better our country in the end. But when people are struggleing to get the basics for their family I can understand where they are coming from when they don't want to pay anymore taxes.
You have a good point, tater but, I think there are many reasons why. Most people I have heard or read say they don't support taxes they don't want to have to pay for other people's problems, or that those people should get jobs. The list goes on. But, certainly, I agree many people are concerned about their finances and there is a waste of tax money. Either way, if you are going to ask for money to be spent, then you have to expect more money to be taken from you.
I don't have a problem paying taxes. I have problems with some of the things taxes are used for. I mean, (and this is just an example of some of the silly things taxes are spent on) who really wants to know about the mating cycle of tse tse fly? How is that going to benefit mankind? Will a tse tse fly create jobs for those without them? No. Will a tse tse fly develop a drug to fight cancer? No. So who cares how or when or how often a tse tse mates. It's sex life really isn't the thing to spend taxes on.

There are people out there that take advantage of the system, and there are also people out there that truly need help. The women that have multiple children by multiple fathers just to get welfare money, are often keeping people who really need help from getting it. Just an observation, not intended to be a slam against anyone.