Your Modern Day Republican Party

[USMC the Almighty]

it certainly wasn't both. The Act expired with the Adams presidency.

Were you there? Most sources say that some aspects of the Acts ended with Adams Presidency while a few remained until 1802.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

1. War President's are always umpopular. I can see the similarities between the Civil War and the Iraq War already. You're blowing me away.

Madison? Polk? McKinley? FDR? Eisenhower? Bush Sr.? How wrong you are.

2. We've already gone over this. Historical Precedent does not make it the correct course.

It might not make it correct (though in my opinion, it is correct) but history shows that it's likely to be effective.

3. You'd think our Intelligence would be a little better 160 years later

Wars are unpredictable.

4. I don't recall who the civilian defense chief was during the civil war, but great comparison. I mean since Rumsfeld was ridiculed and this defense chief were ridiculed, wow, it's like seeing the same war all over again.

It was Edwin Stanton (the guy who's firing almost got Andrew Johnson impeached). I was just making a connection between the people involved with the two wars. The real content lies in the Reconstruction.

5. you've found it! the historical precedent for victory in Iraq!!!

Can you refute that? I'll post it again for your convience: "Embittered Democrats, prematurely claiming the war had been an utter failure, demanded that the administration bring the troops home."

6. a century and a half later and morons are still being given advisory roles in the white house?

Wars are not predictable.

7. terrible comparison.

It's an excellent comparison. I'll post it again so you can get another shot: "Lincoln imprisoned 18,000 suspected Confederate sympathizers without trial. Nearly all of his actions, although vehemently denounced by the Copperheads, were subsequently upheld by Congress and the Courts.
-- Guantanamo Bay to a lesser extent, but certainly similar"

8. it is a common misconception that the president, as Commander-in-Chief, is the sole arbiter of what is "APPROPRIATE" and "NECESSARY," once a war (or police action) begins

You can't run a war by committee. You never served in the military so you don't know what it's like taking orders from 15 different people. Like Patton said: "just tell people what to do and they'll surprise you with their ingenuity". We don't need Congress to advice the military in military matters. We don't try to advise them in political matters.

9. Lincoln was fighting to preserve the union, he used "slavery" to win the war. Bush used WMD to lie a nation into war. Big difference

(a) Why is slavery in quotes?
(b) Lincoln didn't "use" it to win the war. He realized that the war couldn't be done without abolishing it. Much like how the President realized that we couldn't fight terrorists in Iraq with Saddam in power.
(c) Saddam had WMDs.
(d) Why do you assume that he was "lying"? Could he not have just had bad intelligence like Lincoln?

10. Lincoln freed the slaves. 600,000 Iraqi's have died in this war. Their country is in shambles and we are rewriting their laws so that american inudstrialists can dominant their economy. freedom?

(a) Some 625,000 Americans died during the Civil War.
(b) America was in shambles after the war.
(c) Saddam was orchestrating "ethnic cleansing". He killed many more than the U.S. has killed (however big or small that number is -- no one can even give an educated guess)
(d) Freedom? No matter how bad you want the situation in Iraq to turn for political leverage, eventually you are going to have to own up to the fact that things in Iraq are far better than they ever were under Saddam's despotic dictatorship.

This must be the mess your talking about:

-Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.

-Over 400,000 kids have up to date immunizations.

-Over 1500 schools have been renovated and ridded of the weapons that were stored there so education can occur.

-School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.

-The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.

-100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed compared to 35% before the war.

-Elections are taking place in every major city and city councils are in place.

-Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.

-Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.

-Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.

-Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.

-Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.

-An interim constitution has been signed.

11. weak

Fine.

12. These are really your similarities between 2 completely different wars?

Just threw it in for good measure.

intellectually honest would be admitting that the American Civil War and the War on Terror are as completely different as any 2 wars in modern history. drawing parrallels by pointing out similarities in criticisms and successes doesn't cut it.

Wow -- you're more blind than I initially assessed.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

Look at your last sentence. Why do you think "we" may be entering 1877 all over again.
We are not Iraqis.
Civil wars are for the people of that country to fight.

Just read the last paragraph again. It makes perfect sense to me.

 

[TVoffBrainOn]

Were you there? Most sources say that some aspects of the Acts ended with Adams Presidency while a few remained until 1802.

The Naturalization Act WAS repealed by congress in 1802

the Alien Friends Act had an expiration date of 2 years after it was signed (june 25 1798)

the Sedition Act had an expiration date of March 3 1801

the Alien Enemies Act remains law to this day

 

[USMC the Almighty]

The Naturalization Act WAS repealed by congress in 1802

the Alien Friends Act had an expiration date of 2 years after it was signed (june 25 1798)

the Sedition Act had an expiration date of March 3 1801

the Alien Enemies Act remains law to this day

What exactly is the Alien Enemies Act?

 

[TVoffBrainOn]

What exactly is the Alien Enemies Act?

THE ALIEN ENEMIES ACT
An Act respecting alien enemies.

SECTION 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That whenever there shall be a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion shall be perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States, by any foreign nation or government, and the President of the United States shall make public proclamation of the event, all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being males of the age of fourteen years and upwards, who shall be within the United States, and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured and removed, as alien enemies. And the President of the United States shall be, and he is hereby authorized, in any event, as aforesaid, by his proclamation thereof, or other public act, to direct the conduct to be observed, on the part of the United States, towards the aliens who shall become liable, as aforesaid; the manner and degree of the restraint to which they shall be subject, and in what cases, and upon what security their residence shall be permitted, and to provide for the removal of those, who, not being permitted to reside within the United States, shall refuse or neglect to depart therefrom; and to establish any other regulations which shall be found necessary in the premises and for the public safety: Provided, that aliens resident within the United States, who shall become liable as enemies, in the manner aforesaid, and who shall not be chargeable with actual hostility, or other crime against the public safety, shall be allowed, for the recovery, disposal, and removal of their goods and effects, and for their departure, the full time which is, or shall be stipulated by any treaty, where any shall have been between the United States, and the hostile nation or government, of which they shall be natives, citizens, denizens or subjects: and where no such treaty shall have existed, the President of the United States may ascertain and declare such reasonable time as may be consistent with the public safety, and according to the dictates of humanity and national hospitality.

SEC. 2. And be it further enacted, That after any proclamation shall be made as aforesaid, it shall be the duty of the several courts of the United States, and of each state, having criminal jurisdiction, and of the several judges and justices of the courts of the United States, and they shall be, and are hereby respectively, authorized upon complaint, against any alien or alien enemies, as aforesaid, who shall be resident and at large within such jurisdiction or district, to the danger of the public peace or safety, and contrary to the tenor or intent of such proclamation, or other regulations which the President of the United States shall and may establish in the premises, to cause such alien or aliens to be duly apprehended and convened before such court, judge or justice; and after a full examination and hearing on such complaint, and sufficient cause therefor appearing, shall and may order such alien or aliens to be removed out of the territory of the United States, or to give sureties of their good behaviour, or to be otherwise restrained, conformably to the proclamation or regulations which shall and may be established as aforesaid, and may imprison, or otherwise secure such alien or aliens, until the order which shall and may be made, as aforesaid, shall be performed.

SEC. 3. And be it further enacted, That it shall be the duty of the marshal of the district in which any alien enemy shall be apprehended, who by the President of the United States, or by order of any court, judge or justice, as aforesaid, shall be required to depart, and to be removed, as aforesaid, to provide therefor, and to execute such order, by himself or his deputy, or other discreet person or persons to be employed by him, by causing a removal of such alien out of the territory of the United States; and for such removal the marshal shall have the warrant of the President of the United States, or of the court, judge or justice ordering the same, as the case may be.

JONATHAN DAYTON, Speaker of the House of Representatives.

THEODORE SEDGWICK, President of the Senate, pro tempore.

APPROVED, July 6, 1798:

JOHN ADAMS, President of the United States

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The Alien Enemies Act (official title: An Act Respecting Alien Enemies) authorized the president to apprehend and deport resident aliens if their home countries were at war with the United States. Enacted July 6, 1798, with no expiration date, it remains in effect today as 50 USC Sections 21-24.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

The Alien Enemies Act (official title: An Act Respecting Alien Enemies) authorized the president to apprehend and deport resident aliens if their home countries were at war with the United States.

Oh that's right, yeah, I remember it now. Thanks.

Back on track here -- have you taken a look at my thoughts on Reconstruction?