GenSeneca
Well-Known Member
My original premise, before the "force or no force" argument started, was that jeopardizing public safety is a violation of rights.
Jeopardize: Put (someone or something) into a situation in which there is a danger of loss, harm, or failure.
You are stating that 'Putting someone else in danger is a violation of rights'.Violate: to break, infringe, or transgress.
Your very presence on the top of the canyon puts me in danger,i.e. in jeopardy. Do you consider yourself to have violated my rights simply by being on the top of the cliff?You seemed to agree that rolling rocks down the canyon, and thus jeopardizing people at the bottom was a violation of the rights of those at the bottom.
I'm not sure whether you agree that driving under the influence, racing on public streets, or setting fires in unsafe locations is a violation of rights or not.
I don't see the difference.
I'll quote you:
The inverse is not true, however, that physical action necessarily violates someone's rights. It all depends on what that action is.
Indeed it does depend on what the action is... Whether the guy next to me on the highway is piss drunk or stone sober doesn't matter to me in the slightest, only his actions are of concern. So long as he is not initiating the use of force against me, e.g. drifting into my car with his, he is not violating my rights. And even if he does not use force against me, his very presence, drunk or sober, puts me in jeopardy but his presence alone does not violate my rights.After all, only 12% of the people who hit me with their car are "drunk", the other 88% are "sober". Citing the smaller % as being a bigger problem strikes me as purely an emotional conclusion.
You may not have to force(v) them to be down there but you will have to use force in order to violate their rights. Without the use of force to create a physical action, you'd just be standing there, violating the rights of no one.And yes, you have to use force (definition from physics) to do any of the above.
However, you don't have to force (common definition) anyone to be at the bottom of the canyon or on the highway.