An unpopular (in this forum) view of the GOP that needs to be faced

[Openmind]

I found this article on CNN news story, and I thought it would be helpful, although, I am sure, very unpopular with most in this forum.

I am NOT posting this to rub your faces in the debacle of your favorite party, but because I have always had a firm belief that, one of the biggest challenges parties (or any group of people who are isolated from different mindsets, either by choice or by ignorance) face is to not take the time to inform themselves of what others, the "outsiders", think, and how they view a reality from a different point of view.

This seems to be a clear, non partisan look at what is weakening your party.

You can choose to read it and think about it, taking in the parts that may reach your sense of integrity and consciousness, or you can ignore it, and rebute it by an other bunch of delusional excuses or false reality.

Ut if you just reject this without seriously thinking about it, and doing something about the particules of truth that manage to reach you through the fog Fox News and Limbaugh have created around your world, you may miss a chance to set your partyback on a track to recovery.

Up to you! I must say that, based on the general comments of the last few months, I don't think any of you, except maybe one, will accept this as a learning experience. . . But here it is anyway

Zelizer: GOP's choice: Leadership or gridlock
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/31/opinion/zelizer-gop-future/index.html

By the way, if you want to know more about what kind of person would write such an opinion, and whether or not his opinion should matter, based on his credential, here is a link where you can learn more about Julian Zelizer:


Julian E. Zelizer is Professor of History and Public Affairs at Princeton University. Zelizer is one of the leading figures in the field of American political history and a well known public intellectual. Professor Zelizer is the author and editor of numerous books that examine U.S. political leaders, policies, and institutions since the New Deal.
More
www.princeton.edu/~jzelizer/

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Great article

A well observed and sober account of the republican party

I have written a similar article albeit a bit briefer below

The republican party is finished as more and more young people embrace more left wing politics and the Tea party becomes ever more embarrassing.

It is going the same way as the conservative party in the uk who couldn't win a majority even against the financial catastrophe many (wrongly) blamed the labour government for.

 

[Openmind]

Yes. . .isn't it interesting that our friends to the Right have chosen not to comment. . .

Well, I guess silence and "pretending something doesn't exist" is the typical way for some people to protect their fallacious beliefs.

Reading this article may create an uncomfortable cognitive dissonance even if they try to ignore reality!

 

[dogtowner]

The author assumes, as do the democrats, that more of the same out of control spending will somehow yield a different result.

This Senate bill claims to be able to produce 60 billion. in revenue from the top tier (does anyone believe that ?) but doesnt reduce spending a dime. Is this "bold leadership" or ignoring the basic facts of the problems we face ?

But I will credit the author for eschewing the lie that democrat leadership is telling that this Senate bill reduces the deficit.

So who exactly is taking the easy and popular road vs the hard road that the author praises past leadership for taking and who is taking the hard road today ?

I suspect the House will cave at some point as they are known to do and the can will be kicked down the road again. But there is only so much road left before all choice is removed.

Time to sober up and face reality.

 

[PLC1]

After much leaping, hooting, and pointing of fingers, the Congress actually passed a bill to keep the country from going over the "fiscal cliff", but one that didn't seem to include much in the way of decreasing government spending.

Since the Republicans were the ones hooting the most about cutting spending, it was seen as a Republican defeat when said spending was not cut.

The fact of the matter is that neither party is into fiscal conservatism or even fiscal sanity. This so called 'fix" is the best that the dysfunctional Congress could do. Oh, well, the government will keep running for a while longer, now that it's all fixed, right?

"All fixed"

 

[Openmind]

After much leaping, hooting, and pointing of fingers, the Congress actually passed a bill to keep the country from going over the "fiscal cliff", but one that didn't seem to include much in the way of decreasing government spending.

Since the Republicans were the ones hooting the most about cutting spending, it was seen as a Republican defeat when said spending was not cut.

The fact of the matter is that neither party is into fiscal conservatism or even fiscal sanity. This so called 'fix" is the best that the dysfunctional Congress could do. Oh, well, the government will keep running for a while longer, now that it's all fixed, right?

"All fixed"

I am not that pleased about this "fix" either, as i don't think a two monts fix will do us any favor. I would rather the House reject this, and we really go over the cliff, then we can back track by President Obama given a new tax break to incomes below $250,000 a year, and we will have a sizeable cut for defense!

I wonder what Boehner and his sheep will do when they "vote" at 1m today. . . If they even vote on it!

 

[PLC1]

here's a visual on the difference between the Democrats' spending reduction proposals and those of the Republicans:

 

[Openmind]

The author assumes, as do the democrats, that more of the same out of control spending will somehow yield a different result.

This Senate bill claims to be able to produce 60 billion. in revenue from the top tier (does anyone believe that ?) but doesnt reduce spending a dime. Is this "bold leadership" or ignoring the basic facts of the problems we face ?

But I will credit the author for eschewing the lie that democrat leadership is telling that this Senate bill reduces the deficit.

So who exactly is taking the easy and popular road vs the hard road that the author praises past leadership for taking and who is taking the hard road today ?

I suspect the House will cave at some point as they are known to do and the can will be kicked down the road again. But there is only so much road left before all choice is removed.

Time to sober up and face reality.

Dear, this author was NOT talking about the "2 months fix" addressing spending cuts. . .this "fix" is not the "final product."

Don't you get that? This is just a bandaid to avoid the increase in federal taxes on the first $400,000 of income. Eceryything else (except for unemployment which is extended for one year, and the payroll taxes, which go back to the level it was prior to the temporary relief) remains to be determined.

Republicans have played those obstruction games for too long, and the country (much more than the 52% who voted for obama) are sick of the GOP's games.

 

[dogtowner]

Failure to address the spending problem is failure.

 

[Openmind]

here's a visual on the difference between the Democrats' spending reduction proposals and those of the Republicans:

Did you see what austerity did to the British economy?

And the Japanese economy before that?

Time for those who have NEVER even experienced "austerity" to give more.

 

[dogtowner]

Dear, this author was NOT talking about the "2 months fix" addressing spending cuts. . .this "fix" is not the "final product."

Don't you get that? This is just a bandaid to avoid the increase in federal taxes on the first $400,000 of income. Eceryything else (except for unemployment which is extended for one year, and the payroll taxes, which go back to the level it was prior to the temporary relief) remains to be determined.

Republicans have played those obstruction games for too long, and the country (much more than the 52% who voted for obama) are sick of the GOP's games.

"we will address it later"

how is this not more of the same old same old ?
all it is intended to do us get the debt limit raised.

ee need bold change we got more useless avoidance.

 

[PLC1]

Did you see what austerity did to the British economy?

And the Japanese economy before that?

Time for those who have NEVER even experienced "austerity" to give more.

How much longer do you think we can continue to have trillion plus deficits before the dollar goes the way of the Argentine Peso and the old German Mark?

 

[Openmind]

How much longer do you think we can continue to have trillion plus deficits before the dollar goes the way of the Argentine Peso and the old German Mark?

What's wrong with old German's Mark? Sure seems to be doing just fine as the Euro against the Dollars!

And, the point is that there is LOTS of money in the US. . .it is just all going to the top .5%. . . So, why ask those who live on poverty or close to poverty income to pay more taxes, and to get cuts on all the programs that keep them from starving like 3rd world countries citizens while the top .5% gets wealthier on THE WORK OF THE MIDDLE CLASS every year?

Face it. . .it is the MIDDLE CLASS and the poor that make the economy work or fail! Because they don't have the luxury to send their "extra income " oversea. . .they have to spend it right here on NECESSITIES.

Please go back and look at the "velocity of money," and see what $1 of tax break (or unemployment, or food stamps) do to the economy, compared to the same $1 given to the wealthy!

OBVIOUSLY the policies of the Bush era didn't work for the economy, since it is clear that the $ LOST against most currencies during that period! Now the $ is a little higher than in 2006 to 2008 against the Euro. . .but it is a combination of NEW policies by the Obama government AND the weakness created in Europe by the fiasco of the 2008 crisis provoked by Bush's policies!

All those figures are readily available for all to see. . .but I am tired of posting them and never getting a reply that doesn't consist at "poopooing" it, and refusing to see the reality.

Obviously those countries who loan to the US are not as worried as the Republicans about our deficits, since they continue to loan money at a very preferential rate!

And, by the way, there is a clause in the constitution that specifically addresses debts incured even BEFORE the establishment of the constitution and forced us to repay our debts. So, by trying to refuse to raise the debt limit, which would force us to default on our debts, the GOP would throw the Constitution (which seems to be their bible) to the trash.

Keep on worrying about your "right to bear arms" in the second amendment, but ignore the clause in the Constitution that obliged us to pay EVEN the debts we had PRIOR to the establishment of this constitution!

That makes a LOT of sense!

 

[cashmcall]

I found this article on CNN news story, and I thought it would be helpful, although, I am sure, very unpopular with most in this forum.

I am NOT posting this to rub your faces in the debacle of your favorite party, but because I have always had a firm belief that, one of the biggest challenges parties (or any group of people who are isolated from different mindsets, either by choice or by ignorance) face is to not take the time to inform themselves of what others, the "outsiders", think, and how they view a reality from a different point of view.

This seems to be a clear, non partisan look at what is weakening your party.

You can choose to read it and think about it, taking in the parts that may reach your sense of integrity and consciousness, or you can ignore it, and rebute it by an other bunch of delusional excuses or false reality.

Ut if you just reject this without seriously thinking about it, and doing something about the particules of truth that manage to reach you through the fog Fox News and Limbaugh have created around your world, you may miss a chance to set your partyback on a track to recovery.

Up to you! I must say that, based on the general comments of the last few months, I don't think any of you, except maybe one, will accept this as a learning experience. . . But here it is anyway

Zelizer: GOP's choice: Leadership or gridlock
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/31/opinion/zelizer-gop-future/index.html

By the way, if you want to know more about what kind of person would write such an opinion, and whether or not his opinion should matter, based on his credential, here is a link where you can learn more about Julian Zelizer:


Julian E. Zelizer is Professor of History and Public Affairs at Princeton University. Zelizer is one of the leading figures in the field of American political history and a well known public intellectual. Professor Zelizer is the author and editor of numerous books that examine U.S. political leaders, policies, and institutions since the New Deal.
More
www.princeton.edu/~jzelizer/

I geuss we need to give up then...all we needed to do was stand our ground...

 

[Openmind]

I would also like you to consider the deficit of today versus the deficit of 4 years ago, and note that it has gone down EACH YEAR since Obama took office. Also, that the biggest deficit ever recorded was in 2009, a year that was "budgeted" by the Bush administration, not Obama.

You may also like to look at the deficits over the years, ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION.

http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-deficits-and-surpluses-in-the-united-states.php