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Carter years, but worse???

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Unite Our Nation, Nov 1, 2008.

  1. Unite Our Nation

    Unite Our Nation New Member

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    Let's all revisit the Carter years. Especially those of you who were too young to "get it" back then.



    "At a time when the Washington establishment was the target of widespread public disgust -- with the Vietnam war, Watergate and the Nixon resignation -- Carter had huge Democrat majorities in the House and Senate. In 1976, Democrats held 292 House seats, compared to 143 for the GOP. Their lead in the Senate was 61 to 38 with one Independent. In 1978, the margin was reduced slightly: 277 to 158 in the House and 57/42/1 in the Senate. Getting congressional approval of his proposals should have been almost automatic. But Carter’s complete inexperience with the operations of the federal government were painfully obvious from his first day in the White House. His first priority was a package of tax, welfare and civil service “reforms”. He was unable to get it through Congress. He failed again when he attempted to get bills passed creating a consumer protection agency or an attempt to control rising hospital costs.

    In the wake of OPEC doubling and then redoubling petroleum prices, Carter’s energy legislation also failed primarily because it would have brought the nation’s oil and gas industries under a complex web of federal restrictions and regulations. He did succeed in setting up the Departments of Energy and Education but neither emerged as anything more than new add-ons to an already top-heavy federal bureaucracy.

    If the “proof of the pudding is in the eating,” the statistics on the Carter Administration were nauseating. Automobile prices increased 72%. New house prices went up 67%. In 1979 alone, gasoline prices increased 60%. The inflation rate went from 6.8% in 1977, to 7.6% in 1978, to 11.5% in 1979, to 12.4% in 1980. National productivity declined sharply. The unemployment rate was roughly double what it is today under President Bush. Interest rates soared. By the time Carter left office, the prime rate was 21.5% -- a new record.


    With obama we are on track for Carter years II, but MUCH WORSE!!
     
  2. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I remember the Carter years, and soon my daughter will understand what I am talking about.

    Its smart to pre plan now and save up so you wont suffer as badly
     
  3. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    The comparisons with the Carter debacle are amazing - the scary thing is that our current McCarter promises to outdo even Jimmy.
     
  4. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    oh sure, this is going to be Carter and a half or worse. But didnt America wake up after 4 years of carter?

    so really it could be a good thing.
     
  5. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    It's been 28 years since Carter left office - the hordes of airhead obamabots have never heard of him.
     
  6. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    all the young ones in college probably dont know anything about him

    I was in 4th and 5th grade, I remember things being normal then we had gas lines, I remember normal food then there was really not enough and I remember eating horse meat because my mom could not afford meat from the market.

    I remember people being really down and depressed and I did not understand it.

    I remember that is when Nightline started because of the hostage situation


    we got over it, the country became stronger because of it. we can get over it again. This time we know what we are getting into and can prepare, we did not have any idea what carters plans would bring so no one could prepare for it.
     
  7. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Carter was president from '76 to '80, during the worst of the OPEC oil crisis.

    During that time, the price of a barrel of oil increased by a factor of 10, raising the price of everything that depends on oil, which, of course, includes just about everything. That price increase created double digit inflation and a worldwide recession.

    That's right, kids, worldwide.

    I can remember the late '70s well. I bought a house in '76, and paid 9.5% interest on the mortgage. I can remember waiting in line to buy 10 gallons of gas, since that was the most that the station would sell at any one time.

    We've just come through a time of high oil prices, but there was no shortage, no lines at the gas pumps, just higher prices. Unless you're old enough to remember the late '70s, you don't really know what energy shortages are all about.

    Carter may not have been the most effective leader we've ever had. In fact, on a scale of 1 to 10, where JFK was a 9 ( I can't think of a 10 right off hand) and GWB is a 1, Carter would not have been more than a 3.

    But Carter didn't engineer the OPEC crisis, nor the world wide recession. No president has that kind of power, and, let's hope, never will.
     
  8. Unite Our Nation

    Unite Our Nation New Member

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    Carter did not engineer the opec crisis, but he did make a lot of horrible decisions that caused GREAT PAIN AND SUFFERING to all the people.

    He tried to implement "changes" that would have made things even worse. Thankfully, they didn't get passed.

    Here is some of his plan.

    "I would never, never do anything that would hurt the middle American wage earner Jimmy Carter Quoted in The Atlanta Con stitution, March 7, 1976 At the time President Carter made this statement, no doubt he was very sincere. Yet, it is the opinion of many observers that the cumu lative effect of the changes in Social Security, the energy taxes, and the new tax reform package will result in a massive tax increase for those in the middle and upper-middle income brackets. "Generally this proposal will lower taxes for families with incomes under 20,000 and raise them for those with incomes above that level."l For families with incomes of 20,000 a year and up, the individ ual income tax cuts Carter has proposed wi.11 not be enough to offset pending Social Security tax increases; these families will see their total taxes rise if Congress accepts the President's plan I2 On Saturday, January 21, 1978, President Carter released a pro posal that called for a 25 billion income tax reduction for individ uals and businesses while eliminating $9 billion in tax shelters for upper-income and middle-income taxpayers. Brepking.down..the program lower and middle-income taxpayers would get reductions of $17 billion 1. The President's 1978 Tax Program, Fact Sheet 7, p. 2, January 21, 1978, Depart ment of the Treasury 2. Art Pine, "Bigger Tax Cut to Middle-Income Families is Seen," The Washington Post, January 31, 1978, p. A5 2 6 billion to small businesses and large corporations, while $2 billion would be reduced by the elimination of the excise tax on phone calls and the reduction of the payroll tax for unemployment insurance.

    According to President Carter, about 94 percent of the tax relief will go to individuals and families earning less than $30,000 per year."
     
  9. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    OMG! Tax relief for middle class wage earners!!?? Oh, no, just imagine the GREAT PAIN AND SUFFERING such a proposal could cause. Why, it could cause the United States to have to borrow money, even be a debtor nation rather than a creditor nation! Wow, aren't you glad such a proposal never made it into law?
     
  10. Libsmasher

    Libsmasher New Member

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    The above is fictional rewriting of history.

    Carter indirectly triggered huge oil increases by his weak and wavering "leadership" - his well-earned worldwide rep by 1979 as an appeaser encouraged the iranian revolution. Carter also irrationally maintained import oil quotas, "windfall" oil taxes, and oil production constraints for a whole year before coming to his senses and acting on those, finally bringing down the price of oil. The 1979 crisis was about 10% OPEC and 90% Carter.

    Carter was w/o question the worst president in US history, and he was dumped after four years in a historic landslide for Reagan.
     
  11. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

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    There were two oil events. One in 73, and the other in 79. The world recession happened in 73 to 74.

    NIXON
    In 73, Nixon disconnected the dollar from gold permanently. This caused massive inflation, obviously since the dollar was no longer worth gold. However, he also put in place price controls. Thus, the natural inflation of the dollar could not be passed on in prices. Result? Economic crash. If you look at the time line, the stock market and economy began to rebound directly after the price controls were repealed.

    OPEC and the Arab oil embargo had zero effect. It was absolutely nothing economically. Even the Arabs agree it had zero effect.

    SHORTAGES
    So why where there long lines and 'shortages'? Because of price controls. When you can't pass on the real cost of oil to the consumer, you can't afford to buy oil. Thus the only gasoline that could be made, was from cheaper domestic production. It wasn't because of an actual shortage of oil.

    For example: Japan supported Israel too, and the Arabs had an embargo against them as well. But there were no shortages in Japan, nor long lines at gas station, just a slightly higher cost in fuel. Why? No price controls there.

    Even in the US, there was no shortage of aviation fuel in the US, because there were no price caps on aviation fuel.

    When the price controls ended, the 'shortages' and long lines also vanished with it.

    UNITED KINGDOM
    The world recession is also a lesson in socialism and economic too. However, I don't have time, and you'd get bored going through them all, but I'll just cover the UK.

    In Great Briton, they previously had a policy of rent control. There were caps on the prices of rooms, or homes. Then, when the US decoupled the dollar to gold, the UK did the same with the Pound sterling. Result? Of course inflation, as the automatic devaluing of the british pound happened since it was no longer worth gold.

    Since the price caps on rent were in effect, and the effects of inflation could not be passed on to renters and home buyers, the housing market in the UK collapsed, causing a crash in the economy, similar, but far worse in effect to what we have here with our sub-prime problem.

    Again, the same as the US problems, when the rent controls were removed, the market instantly began to stabilize, and the economy recovered.

    OPEC
    But the Arab Embargo caused the rise in oil prices and thus made the price controls cause shortages!!

    Actually no. The inflation, caused by the end of the gold standard, and the automatic devaluation of the dollar, caused the rise in oil prices.

    The Shaw of Iran was pro-western, and did not take part in the embargo, and freely sold oil to anyone. Yet he said he had to raise his prices because the value of the dollar had declined so much.

    PUBLIC AND POLICY
    The energy crisis was a creation of the government through price control policy and the end of the gold standard, pure and simple.

    Ironically, the very policies that caused all these problems, were also the very policies that led Nixon to a land slide re-election. Nixon even was against the policies because he thought they would fail, but agreed to it because his advisors knew it would get him re-elected.

    This is because people often know little or nothing about economics or the effect of policies, but they do know that a person who caps prices for them... really cares. It's the same with Obama. His policies will fail, as they have demonstrably in the past, but... he cares. Thus the ignorant will vote for him. In the same way Clinton demonstrated he cared by having the government push for sub-prime loans, yet now we are paying heavily for the failed policy.

    CARTER
    As for Carter, it was a repeat of the same thing. First, however, Carter should have helped the pro-western Shaw of Iran, when he asked for help. Instead Carter, and the democrats in Washington, turned their back on their ally. This doomed the favorable government, to a more soviet friendly one, and at the same time got a bunch of US citizen taken captive by the anti-US Soviet-backed Iranian group.

    But beyond this, Carter did the same thing in response to the rise in oil prices, due to the lower supply. He instituted price controls. The predictable results of which, were to cause massive lines and shortages of Gasoline. Again, the same did not happen in other countries where price controls were not implemented. And the problems ended instantly when Reagan abolished the price controls in 81.

    So did Carter cause the Shaw of Iran to be overthrown? Yes I think so.
    Did Carter cause the oil prices to rise? No, not really. It was supply and demand.
    Did Carter cause the energy crisis of '79? Absolutely. Price controls always cause shortages.

    Bottom line:
    It's the same thing as I've said over and over again in nearly every post I have submitted on this forum.

    Socialism fails. It always fails. It fails consistently, and dependably. Any time you put in place a socialistic control and constraint on the market, you will predictably and reliably have a failure in that area.

    Best to you, I need to sleep.
     
  12. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    Yeah.....tell those too young to "get it" we need another Republican President. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    What.....your daughter's rubbing-your-nose into the probability we're more-than-likely looking at enduring more o' the prosperity of the Clinton-years?
     
  14. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    You must be kidding.

    After what Bush I did, to us, Americans still went-out and "hired" another Bush!!
     
  15. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    I'm thinkin' all the young ones in college are well-aware of what started that hostage-$ituation.


    ....Or, at-the-very-least, better-informed about it.
     
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