Is There A God ???

[Mare Tranquillity]

What I want to know is where's the proof of God's existence?

I'm not a religious person so please do not think I am trying to convince you of anything. I am curious if you have attempted to find God? I don't know how of course, but I have heard that we must each find Him/Her/It in our own way.

Having learned how to lift my consciousness out of my physical body, I have come to think that "I" am not my physical body and that my consciousness is separate from it in some way. Have you ever experimented with anything like that? There is a fairly simple technique for leaving one's body outlined in Robert Monroe's JOURNEYS OUT OF BODY, which is available for a few bucks from Amazon. Stanislav Groff did some interesting work at Harvard and wrote about a breathing technique that allowed a person to do something very similar to out of body travel.

Another very different kind of work is Daniel Pinchbeck's BREAKING OPEN THE HEAD in which he talks about the plant/drug Iboga and it's effects. I don't know about the existence of god or God, but I do know that there are a lot of interesting things going on for which we have no rational explanation and it's fascinating to learn about them.

 

[DavidHenry]

What is your definition of God first, because there is some proof for some kind of creating power, but no proof apart from 'faith' and word of mouth for any of the organized religion's interpretations of God.

If you're speaking to me Sublime....I don't have a definition for God other than what each person nominates, at which point I can enquire as to whether there's a factual basis to their God concept.

 

[Jenifer Johnson]

What I want to know is where's the proof of God's existence?

There is no proof the "Bible God" exists, but only proof that the "Bible God" is a lie.

Real god is Truth.

 

[9sublime]

Try smoking saliva divinorium, a herb from the amazon (I am NOT a new age hippy). This stuff is legal in most of the world and blows you away into full on hallucinations, but within two or three minutes you are back on your feet wondering what the hell just happened.

I've felt and seen some things which I didn't think were physically possible, like believing I was inside inanimate objects.

 

[DavidHenry]

I. I am curious if you have attempted to find God?
.

Hi Mare.

My question to you is "what is God"....it would make life a lot easier if I knew what I was looking for.
Also, without trying to come across as hostile in anyway...I reject the implication that there's such a thing as human consciousness other than it's physical/electrical/chemical relationship to the brain/CNS.

I don't smoke or drink any alcohol....my worse offence is probably a bit too much caffeine from time to time, but otherwise I'm drug free.....so I can't really relate to some of the experiences you might have had, nor am I aware of any value to them in most cases.

 

[DavidHenry]

There is no proof the "Bible God" exists, but only proof that the "Bible God" is a lie.

I can live with that

 

[9sublime]

Fair dos about the drugs (although I love to drink!).

You need your own definition of what God is, even if its very loose, otherwise your debating is this or that organized religion true, and the answer is always no.

 

[DavidHenry]

.

I've felt and seen some things which I didn't think were physically possible, like believing I was inside inanimate objects.

Yeah but did you gets me any science whilst you were in there.....?

 

[DavidHenry]

Fair dos about the drugs (although I love to drink!).

You need your own definition of what God is, even if its very loose, otherwise your debating is this or that organized religion true, and the answer is always no.

Being that God's definition typically relates to organized religion, I thought it proper to designate it to that area of human belief.
Remember, I have no idea of what God is other than what people try and tell me.....

 

[Jenifer Johnson]

"what is God.

There are only two states of being, true or false. You exist, therefore your creator is truth. To deny truth, one would have to deny their own existence. The search for truth and understanding is the discovery of what god is, Truth. We were created as sovereign human being with the ability to discern between truth and false, Reality.

 

[DavidHenry]

We were created as sovereign human beings with the ability to discern between truth and false, Reality.

I tend to see truth as a subset of reality, ie, any coherent aspect of reality, of course the terms are almost synonymous in that reality is truth and all truth equals reality……I have a problem when religious folk try and hijack the term and symbiotically attach the term to God, as such, non religious folk are deemed as “lacking” some fundamental and valuable spiritual knowledge which religious people supposedly have access to.

 

[numinus]

Nonsense actually, ie, there's no evidence of God's existence, so there's nothing to disprove, God is an imaginary concept.

Great!

Another half-baked atheist who doesn't know any better.

You cannot see the evidence all around you? Where do you suppose everything came from, eh? I'll make it a multiple choice type of question so you wouldn't hurt yourself unnecessarily.

a. Everything came from nothing
b. Everything has always existed and will always exist.
c. Everything was created by a creator.

(Hint: 2 of the choices are illogical to the point of absurdity.)

 

[numinus]

That's not what I meant....I'm an Objectivist philosopher of sorts, so when I speak about things like definitions and concepts etc, I have very specific and valid meanings behind them....so in the case of God vs mathematics for example, we need to be aware that the basis of mathematics is the unit of one,

Duh uh.

The basis of mathematics is SET THEORY - the axioms that govern the operations and membership of like things - or sets. By DEFINITION, set theory is FORMAL AND RIGOROUS LOGIC.

and in particular, a reference point to reality.....

Mathematics exists in EUCLIDEAN SPACE - something that has NO parallel concept in physical reality, and in fact, is valid only within the realm of ideas.

now compare that to the imaginary concept of God.

The concept of god is the INEVITABLE conclusion to any physical field of inquiry.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Hi Mare.

My question to you is "what is God"....it would make life a lot easier if I knew what I was looking for.
Also, without trying to come across as hostile in anyway...I reject the implication that there's such a thing as human consciousness other than it's physical/electrical/chemical relationship to the brain/CNS.

I don't smoke or drink any alcohol....my worse offence is probably a bit too much caffeine from time to time, but otherwise I'm drug free.....so I can't really relate to some of the experiences you might have had, nor am I aware of any value to them in most cases.

Yeah, I'm not into drugs and things either. I've been a vegan for more than half my life, I don't smoke or drink at all. But I am intensely curious, so when a friend told me about Monroe's JOURNEYS OUT OF BODY I thought it sounded interesting enough to buy the book and try it. It doesn't take any drugs, it's a mental process that requires some practice--a few weeks in my case. Until I experienced being out of body I would have agreed with you that it wasn't possible--or at least it's unlikely--but I did it several times and it seems to work. I'm not making the news, I'm just reporting it.

Your comment about rejecting the idea of a separate human consciousness is only valid if you do the research for yourself, anybody can say something's impossible--Hell, for centuries people said that heavier than air craft could not be made. Of course you cannot relate to my experiences, and I'm not asking you to do so. I am saying that if you are curious enough you can do the same experiments that I have. I don't have any axe to grind here, it's immaterial to me whether you believe or not, I just thought you sounded like a curious person so I shared some of the things that my curiousity has uncovered for me.

You asked "what is God"? I don't know, I don't have any proof of a god or proof of no god. I will continue to look at the things I don't know about, I will continue to examine and experiment with the things that look interesting--even if others tell me that it's impossible. Life is journey of discovery and I intend to look into all the corners.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Mr. Henry,
You will discover while discussing with your friend and mine, Mr. Numinus, that you can't prove anything to someone else. Even if you sprinkle your posts with scientific sounding words which you bold and underline, it still won't be proof. All one can do is look, listen, read, and experiment to discover what reality is to YOU, there will always be people who will disagree, call you names, and use impolite noises to cast aspersions unless you agree with them. Don't let your search be derailed by preconceived notions or the naysayers.
Mare

Duh uh.

The basis of mathematics is SET THEORY - the axioms that govern the operations and membership of like things - or sets. By DEFINITION, set theory is FORMAL AND RIGOROUS LOGIC.

Mathematics exists in EUCLIDEAN SPACE - something that has NO parallel concept in physical reality, and in fact, is valid only within the realm of ideas.

The concept of god is the INEVITABLE conclusion to any physical field of inquiry.