1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Discuss politics - join our community by registering for free here! HOP - the political discussion forum

Just Another Reason That We Should Have Stayed Out of Iraq

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by michaelr, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. michaelr

    michaelr New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Here not there
    Turkey launches large-scale attack on Kurdish militants - media
    11:07 | 06/ 06/ 2007



    ANKARA, June 6 (RIA Novosti) - The Turkish army is conducting the largest military operation against Kurdish separatists in the south-east of the country in the past few years, local media reported Wednesday.

    According to the Turkish Cihan news agency, the operation, involving about 50,000 troops, armored vehicles and combat aircraft, is targeting Kurdish militants in 11 provinces in southeastern Turkey and northern Iraq.

    "Three F-16 Falcon fighter-bombers...have carried out bombing raids on militant positions of terrorist group the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) in northern Iraq," the agency said. "Artillery deployed at the border [with northern Iraq] has delivered 'pinpointed' strikes at designated targets."

    Observers are not ruling out the possibility that the current operation will precede a full-scale invasion into northern Iraq, where up to 3,500 PKK separatists, poised to commit terrorist attacks in Turkey, are reportedly based.

    Turkish foreign minister Monday defended his country's right to move into neighboring Iraq to destroy separatist bases after a suicide attack, which occurred at a Turkish checkpoint on June 4, killed at least eight soldiers and left six wounded in the latest in a series of terrorist attacks allegedly carried out by Kurdish militants.

    Over 40,000 people have been killed in Turkey since 1984 when the PKK started its fight for an ethnic Kurdish state in the southeast of the country. Its charismatic leader Abdullah Ocalan has been imprisoned since 1999 on charges of terrorism narrowly escaping the death penalty because the EU, whose membership Turkey is seeking, has long lobbied against capital punishment.

    Since the 2003 U.S.-led overthrow of Saddam Hussein, Turkish separatist Kurds have received increasing, if unacknowledged, support from those living in the three neighboring provinces of oil-rich northern Iraq, whose population has sought autonomy from Baghdad and where local Peshmerga militia formally took over security functions from U.S. forces earlier this month.

    Ethnic Kurds have also been actively driving for autonomy in eastern parts of Syria. The borders between the three countries are still unsecured.
     
  2. DrWho

    DrWho New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tardis
    Every negative thing that happens as a result of war is not more a reason to stay out than every positive thing is a reason to stay in. The ends don't justify the means any more than the reverse.

    You only go to war after other options have failed. So if we had waited,say, 12 years or more for Saddam to comply, and lots of un sanctions had failed and we had reason to believe that be might be close to accomplishing his spoken goals of hurting the us - then we would go to war.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. top gun

    top gun New Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    4,940
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    I don't know if everybody noticed but this last group of terrorists that were supposedly planning that bombing at JFK... NONE OF THEM from Iraq, Iran or any place even close.

    I had posted this prediction previously as to what I believed would start happening and as an example of how misguided the train of thought is that the war on terror is the war in Iraq.

    There are large groups like this in at least 12 different countries... and we're bogged down Nation Building in Iraq. The truth is (and this isn't some conspiracy theory about why we went to war) that if it weren't for Iraq having the world's 2nd largest oil reserves... we would not be spending all this time there. We'd be acting a lot more like Iraq was Africa.
     
  4. michaelr

    michaelr New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Here not there
    I agree 100%. We as a nation should practice a little discipline. We should have given the weapons inspectors a bit more time. I only hope that, as a country, we don' treat Iran like Iraq. That would be a big mistake!
     
  5. Sadistic Savior

    Sadistic Savior New Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    10 years wasnt enough?

    Maybe if Saddam had cooperated the first 16 or 17 times, there would have been no need for an invasion. 10 years is very patient IMO. We should have invaded after the 3rd or 4th time he interfered with inspectors.

    A complete record of his interference is available here on the UN's website - http://www.un.org/Depts/unscom/Chronology/chronology.htm -

    Oh, I agree. We definitely should not wait 10 years with Iran like we did with Iraq. We should act much sooner if they refuse to cooperate.

    Why is that a reason to stay out of Iraq? Are you saying our defense policy should center around placating Turkey? Gimme a break.

    Regardless of what obnoxious actions Turkey might commit in the future, we were correct to go into Iraq. The alternatives were worse. And you cant make policy in hindsight.
     
  6. drippinhun

    drippinhun New Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Saddam worked with our CIA and had been in various capacities since the late 1950s.
     
  7. 9sublime

    9sublime Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,620
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Bristol
    Give the weapons inspectors more time? You really think those weapons wouldn't have been destroyed by now, even though they didn't exist in the first place.
     
  8. Sadistic Savior

    Sadistic Savior New Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Irrelevant even if true. Whether the threat was of our own making or not, Saddam was still a threat. Saddam was still an oppressive despot. We were correct to remove him either way.

    The fact that our government made a mistake in supporting him in the 50s does not mean we were wrong to correct that mistake now.
     
  9. michaelr

    michaelr New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Here not there
    Yea, I just bet if he gave up those pesky WMD we wouldn't be there. Oh wait...he didn't have any!
     
  10. michaelr

    michaelr New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Here not there
    The fact that Saddam was a bad guy is not relevant. The fact that brain dead Americans still think that life after Saddam is better is just plain ignorant. 3500 plus troops dead, multiply that by eight and you get the wounded. Almost 400 billion wasted. 650,000 dead Iraqi's. I can't even count the war crimes. Troops on their fourth, and for some, fifth tour. Our country divided. Turkey now attacks Iraq, fighting spreads all over the middle east. No end in sight! ****ing funny how some people say life is better after Saddam. Strike that, it's ****ing SAD!
     
  11. Sadistic Savior

    Sadistic Savior New Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If there werent any, then why did he burn documents? Why wouldnt he let us look?

    You were willing to simply take his word for it?

    In exchange for a zero chance that Saddam would give nukes or nuke technology to our enemies. Yeah, thats a fair trade.

    Where are you getting the 650,000 Dead Iraqi figure from?

    I think it is. And so do most Iraqis. This poll is dated March 2007:


    This one is dated June 2007. Dont know if it is the same poll.

    The Iraqis themselves seem to think things are better.
     
  12. michaelr

    michaelr New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Here not there
    Look, he didn't have weapons. The gas that he used on the Kurds was supplied by the US, your poll is dead wrong. Here is a poll from today, A New York Times and CBS News poll found that 61 percent of Americans believe the U.S. should have stayed out of Iraq; only 35 percent believe the invasion was the right policy. Almost two-thirds want the U.S. to set a timetable for withdrawal, with only 34 percent opposed. I guess that you don't remember the tables of docs and CDs before the war, one to many beers hey? I guess that in 2000 when this whole administration said that Iraq has no weapons, they were wrong. I guess the fact that we found no weapons means nothing to you. This war is a war of aggression and as such it's illegal. Bush needs to be held accountable, JAILED for his crimes.
    I wonder if you went over there and served, if not than maybe you could support the war by doing just that. I imagine that you have not and will not, but I bet you cannot buy enough American flags from Wal-Mart that were made in China, YEA SUPPORT THE TROOPS.
     
  13. Sadistic Savior

    Sadistic Savior New Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    We had no way of knowing that at the time. His interference with inspectors (and burning of documents) made it reasonable to assume he was lying.

    We cannot make policy in hindsight.

    We had no way of knowing for sure because he would not let us look. We were correct not to take his word for it.

    Sue us.

    Good luck with that.

    None of Bush's "crimes" would have been possible without our collective consent. Do you want to jail the majority of Americans as well?

    Does the fact that I am not a cop mean I am not allowed to have an opinion on crime either?

    I've never owned a flag actually.
     
  14. michaelr

    michaelr New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2007
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Here not there
    Bush interfered with the inspectors when he kicked them out. He had to because he knew that Iraq had no weapons, can't let that info get out.
    I'm glad that you said that Bush's crimes were a result of the collective, you right there and they should all pay. I recomend a 30 minute walk in down town Bagdad!
    I do have a flag and it proudly says "Made in the USA"
    "Sue us", hey are you one of them government plants...just kidding.
     
  15. Sadistic Savior

    Sadistic Savior New Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    He didnt withdraw them until Saddam had made it clear he would not end his interference. After the 15th or 16th time, it was reasonable to assume Saddam had no intention of permitting inspections without interference.

    If Iraq had no weapons and was not trying to obtain them, why did he interfere in inspections at all?

    Then why do you only direct your blame at Bush?

    Ah, well then, you must be a patriot.
     
Loading...

Share This Page