now a tricky one for Christians

[dogtowner]

about that 'body and blood of Christ' deal.

my sect says that "it becomes for us..." which we're told means yes, presto changeo. I don't see it that way but have no issue with those who do. seems clearly symbolic and I don't think the scripture contradicts that. Christ was nothing if not symbolic in his teaching so I've no issue seeing it in that way. breaking bread and having wine was as common a thing as there was way back when and I think that occasion made for a perfect regular reminder for us to honor his sacrifice . do this in remembrance of me. a simple request and one I'm happy to oblige.

what say ye ?

 

[Pandora]

about that 'body and blood of Christ' deal.

my sect says that "it becomes for us..." which we're told means yes, presto changeo. I don't see it that way but have no issue with those who do. seems clearly symbolic and I don't think the scripture contradicts that. Christ was nothing if not symbolic in his teaching so I've no issue seeing it in that way. breaking bread and having wine was as common a thing as there was way back when and I think that occasion made for a perfect regular reminder for us to honor his sacrifice . do this in remembrance of me. a simple request and one I'm happy to oblige.

what say ye ?

Here are a few vs. most all if them (I think) that talk about that night when he said the words about the bread and wine. Notice that in all three accounts with Matthew, Mark and Luke he says the same thing. This IS my blood that was shed for you and this IS my body that was broken for you. It never says in any place in scripture that it represents my blood or represents my body. You have to add that in yourself if you want to make it so…

Matthew 26:26-28

New International Version (NIV)

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the[a] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.




Mark 14:22-25


New International Version (NIV)

22 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take it; this is my body.”

23 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, and they all drank from it.

24 “This is my blood of the[a] covenant, which is poured out for many,” he said to them. 25 “Truly I tell you, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”


Luke 22:14-20


New International Version (NIV)

14 When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”

17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.[a]



1 Corinthians 11:23-29

New International Version (NIV)

23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.










An equally important question is....

When does one take communion? Some churches do it weekly, some monthly but Jesus said

"When you do this... do it in remembrance of me"

What were they doing?



It was the first night of Passover (the 8 day festival) something Christians have tossed out and replaced with Easter. But Passover is so important, God passed over the houses of people who had the blood of the lamb on their door and they were saved…







1 Corinthians 5:7


New International Version (NIV)

7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.








Communion is a serious thing, serious enough I have never actually done it. The vs. below is from the NIV but most all other translations end with not discerning the Lord’s[b] body. For what ever reason NIV leaves that out.





1 Corinthians 11:29

New International Version (NIV)

29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

 

[dogtowner]

Here are a few vs. most all if them (I think) that talk about that night when he said the words about the bread and wine. Notice that in all three accounts with Matthew, Mark and Luke he says the same thing. This IS my blood that was shed for you and this IS my body that was broken for you. It never says in any place in scripture that it represents my blood or represents my body. You have to add that in yourself if you want to make it so…

Matthew 26:26-28

New International Version (NIV)

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the[a] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.




Mark 14:22-25


New International Version (NIV)

22 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take it; this is my body.”

23 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, and they all drank from it.

24 “This is my blood of the[a] covenant, which is poured out for many,” he said to them. 25 “Truly I tell you, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”


Luke 22:14-20


New International Version (NIV)

14 When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”

17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.[a]



1 Corinthians 11:23-29

New International Version (NIV)

23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.










An equally important question is....

When does one take communion? Some churches do it weekly, some monthly but Jesus said

"When you do this... do it in remembrance of me"

What were they doing?



It was the first night of Passover (the 8 day festival) something Christians have tossed out and replaced with Easter. But Passover is so important, God passed over the houses of people who had the blood of the lamb on their door and they were saved…







1 Corinthians 5:7


New International Version (NIV)

7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.








Communion is a serious thing, serious enough I have never actually done it. The vs. below is from the NIV but most all other translations end with not discerning the Lord’s[b] body. For what ever reason NIV leaves that out.





1 Corinthians 11:29

New International Version (NIV)

29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

yes I read that too, still able to see it as symbolic but thats just me talking.
never did it huh ? I've done it loads of times have not burst into flames once ; )
kidding aside, yes it IS important but, for me, important that we be regular and constant in acknowledging Christ as our savior. aint a one and done matter.

 

[Pandora]

yes I read that too, still able to see it as symbolic but thats just me talking.
never did it huh ? I've done it loads of times have not burst into flames once ; )
kidding aside, yes it IS important but, for me, important that we be regular and constant in acknowledging Christ as our savior. aint a one and done matter.

I don’t think you would burst into flames When I was younger and would go to various different churches I noticed some do it each week some once a month and when I asked about it I never got a straight answer. And I was really unhappy as a custodian when cleaning up after church people who threw the little plastic cups down on the floor for me to pick up. Even if it was symbolic to them the idea that they would just toss the cups to the ground bothered me.



Never getting a straight answer from preacher’s pastor’s exc. Is what got me to dig deeper into scripture about it. The more I looked the more I realized it was a specific day, the first day of Passover, the feast of unleavened bread. I personally think that is more important than the idea of it being symbolic blood and body but I don’t dare say its only symbolic though when there is nothing in scripture that says that.



If I ever find myself in a situation where I am having a Passover meal and I am offered communion... I will take it

 

[Aus22]

I don’t think you would burst into flames When I was younger and would go to various different churches I noticed some do it each week some once a month and when I asked about it I never got a straight answer. And I was really unhappy as a custodian when cleaning up after church people who threw the little plastic cups down on the floor for me to pick up. Even if it was symbolic to them the idea that they would just toss the cups to the ground bothered me.



Never getting a straight answer from preacher’s pastor’s exc. Is what got me to dig deeper into scripture about it. The more I looked the more I realized it was a specific day, the first day of Passover, the feast of unleavened bread. I personally think that is more important than the idea of it being symbolic blood and body but I don’t dare say its only symbolic though when there is nothing in scripture that says that.



If I ever find myself in a situation where I am having a Passover meal and I am offered communion... I will take it

Pandora, This is one area where Catholics take these verses literally . Most protestant do not. To us the bread and wine are Christ Body and blood in the appearance of bread and wine. We offer this communion every day.

 

[cashmcall]

Pandora, This is one area where Catholics take these verses literally . Most protestant do not. To us the bread and wine are Christ Body and blood in the appearance of bread and wine. We offer this communion every day.

The Catholics may have it right..The Bible says ..Do this as often as you gather..

 

[dogtowner]

Pandora, This is one area where Catholics take these verses literally . Most protestant do not. To us the bread and wine are Christ Body and blood in the appearance of bread and wine. We offer this communion every day.

interesting, it was my understanding it was more than appearance. all the priests I know were consistent in this.

 

[Pandora]

The Catholics may have it right..The Bible says ..Do this as often as you gather..

I have been searching for a place the bible says "Do this as often as you gather" but the closest I can find outside of the vs. I already posted is…



1 Corinthians 1123 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.”25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.”26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.



Whenever you eat this bread… they were having the feast of unleavened bread on the first day of Passover.



I would like to find a vs. that says to do it as often as you gather together. It could change my thinking on this. I’ll keep looking but if you can post it, that would be great.

 

[PLC1]

English lesson of the day: Metaphor vs Simile

The terms metaphor and simile are slung around as if they meant exactly the same thing.
A simile is a metaphor, but not all metaphors are similes.
Metaphor is the broader term. In a literary sense metaphor is a rhetorical device that transfers the sense or aspects of one word to another. For example:

The moon was a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas. — “The Highwayman,” Alfred Noyes​

Here the moon is being compared to a sailing ship. The clouds are being compared to ocean waves. This is an apt comparison because sometimes banks of clouds shuttling past the moon cause the moon to appear to be moving and roiling clouds resemble churning water.
A simile is a type of metaphor in which the comparison is made with the use of the word like or its equivalent:

My love is like a red, red rose. — Robert Burns​

No one believes that the moon is actually a sailing ship. The above is a metaphor.
The phrase, "This IS my blood that was shed for you" is a metaphor also. If it said, "This is like my blood," or perhaps "this represents my blood,", then it would be a simile.

Which, after all, is about the same thing. There really is nothing magical about the Christian sacrament, it is simply symbolic of Christ's sacrifice for mankind.

 

[Pandora]

English lesson of the day: Metaphor vs Simile




No one believes that the moon is actually a sailing ship. The above is a metaphor.
The phrase, "This IS my blood that was shed for you" is a metaphor also. If it said, "This is like my blood," or perhaps "this represents my blood,", then it would be a simile.

Which, after all, is about the same thing. There really is nothing magical about the Christian sacrament, it is simply symbolic of Christ's sacrifice for mankind.

I accept that when Jesus says "I am the door"

I know he is not a door, he is not wooden and he has no hinges or a knob. He means he is the gateway, the opening, the pathway. The place you must enter and pass through to get to the final destination, The Father. But also you must first knock J





You may even be right about the blood bread thing but I am not going to say for sure. You will have to argue with scripture instead of me on that. I am not willing to decide for sure on something that important. Though I think your argument would be better if at least one of the gospel writers said it represents or symbolizes instead of is...



Too many people who claim to be Christian have watered down the message and meanings so much that it’s basically meaningless, much like the Laodicean Church. I’d rather not be spit out of my Messiah’s mouth.

 

[PLC1]

I accept that when Jesus says "I am the door"

I know he is not a door, he is not wooden and he has no hinges or a knob. He means he is the gateway, the opening, the pathway. The place you must enter and pass through to get to the final destination, The Father. But also you must first knock J

Yes, that's another example of a metaphor. There are a lot of them in the Bible.

 

[Pandora]

Yes, that's another example of a metaphor. There are a lot of them in the Bible.

Tell me please if this vs. I post is to be taken literally. Somehow I expect you will say it’s a metaphor and or not to be taken literally, but I will be happy to be wrong on this one I just don’t think so


John 14:6

New International Version (NIV)
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[PLC1]

Tell me please if this vs. I post is to be taken literally. Somehow I expect you will say it’s a metaphor and or not to be taken literally, but I will be happy to be wrong on this one I just don’t think so


John 14:6

New International Version (NIV)
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

No, I don't think that's a metaphor. When he says he's the door, that is. The idea that you have to follow Christ in order to get to the father is basic to Christianity.

 

[Aus22]

I have been searching for a place the bible says "Do this as often as you gather" but the closest I can find outside of the vs. I already posted is…



1 Corinthians 1123 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.”25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.”26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.



Whenever you eat this bread… they were having the feast of unleavened bread on the first day of Passover.



I would like to find a vs. that says to do it as often as you gather together. It could change my thinking on this. I’ll keep looking but if you can post it, that would be great.

Padora, There are many references in the ACT of the Apostles to breaking bread. Catholics believe this means the Eucharist. Examples are in Acts 2:42.""And they continued steadfastly in the teachings of the apostles and in communion. of the breaking of the bread and prayers."and in Acts 20:7 änd on the first day of the week when we ha met for the breaking of bread". This is continued every day in the Catholic Church.

 

[Pandora]

No, I don't think that's a metaphor. When he says he's the door, that is. The idea that you have to follow Christ in order to get to the father is basic to Christianity.

I fully admit I am surprised you answered the way you did. I expected you to give the “what about the guy stranded on the deserted island” or “what about the guy who only knows Buddha and never heard of Jesus”



Some days you surprise me, that’s good… keep me on my toes