Supreme Court upholds virtually all of Obamacare - Full text of Opinion and Dissent here

[Johnny Tremain]

you boys want to dial it back a couple notches ? please ?
dont want to shut anyone up, just keep it civil.
thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Compliance here.
Hence--the "--30--"

Some say the mark began during a time when stories were submitted via telegraph, with "-30-" denoting "the end" in Morse code. Another theory suggests that the first telegraphed news story had 30 words. Others claim the "-30-" comes from a time when stories were written in longhand — X marked the end of a sentence, XX the end of a paragraph and XXX meant the end of a story. The Roman numerals XXX translate to 30.

 

[dogtowner]

Yes they are treated...only at the point where its life or death....and still its estamated that some 45,000 die from lack of coverage.

Covered means you can go in when you get sick...not when your about to die and it costs 1,000 times more to save you. If having coverage was so meanless as you claim, why do you blow so much money to be covered?
Also who pays for those not covererd?

You...But oddly your against someone saying they should pay for there coverage if they can. But your for them putting the bill on you if they can.

No P, the argument is that kids were going to the ER for ear infections.
Charity pays for those who cannot. Same as always.
And recent studies show that shifting them from charity to covered will actually cost far more.

What we said was that it was unconstitutional to force someone to buy something/anything and so it was found to be. But the Congress can tax for any reason they wish.

 

[PLC1]

No P, the argument is that kids were going to the ER for ear infections.
Charity pays for those who cannot. Same as always.
And recent studies show that shifting them from charity to covered will actually cost far more.

What we said was that it was unconstitutional to force someone to buy something/anything and so it was found to be. But the Congress can tax for any reason they wish.

I'm not sure why having their ear infections treated at a local clinic rather than at the ER should cost more. It seems to me that aspect of the plan, at least, would cut costs.

 

[dogtowner]

I'm not sure why having their ear infections treated at a local clinic rather than at the ER should cost more. It seems to me that aspect of the plan, at least, would cut costs.

The ER has a substantial cost associated with just being there, sort of like that plumber having a minimum just to show up. The actual costs of care could be rather different if a doc is doing the work in the ER vs some level of nurse at a clinic.

But you raise an interesting point as there are clinics available for such things but the argument persists thats its all ER.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

The truth is, the whole concept of medical care and how it is all constructed, connected, managed and run is the bigger problem.
Way too many hands needing to be crossed with a silver coin along the way.
That will be the final outcome of all this--some decades down the road.
Money should not be made in large quantity on the misery of others.
Everyone agrees on this--at some level.

The left-wing always has the same problem.
Thinking it is only a "wish" or "desire" to solve a problem that solves it.
Just pass some horrific bag of crap and call it a "solution".
Like solving poverty--by giving poor people money!
How easy! Take the rich people's money!
That is why young college students think all problems will melt away if some Joker like Obama appears. A flim-flam man.
Which is why they hid their machinations and rammed Obamacare down the nation's throat--with no input from the other party. None.
A nation--that is about to respond to that with Projectile Vomiting the crap right back up.
Sadly, that merely exacerbates the problem and makes it worse.
A LOT of time, effort and money was wasted needlessly.

Hard problems--are hard to solve.
The Founding Fathers saw forced compromise and considerable wrangling as the quintessence of creating a better, equitable society.
They were as right today--as they were in the 1700's.

 

[dogtowner]

The truth is, the whole concept of medical care and how it is all constructed, connected, managed and run is the bigger problem.
Way too many hands needing to be crossed with a silver coin along the way.
That will be the final outcome of all this--some decades down the road.
Money should not be made in large quantity on the misery of others.
Everyone agrees on this--at some level.

The left-wing always has the same problem.
Thinking it is only a "wish" or "desire" to solve a problem that solves it.
Just pass some horrific bag of crap and call it a "solution".
Like solving poverty--by giving poor people money!
How easy! Take the rich people's money!
That is why young college students think all problems will melt away if some Joker like Obama appears. A flim-flam man.
Which is why they hid their machinations and rammed Obamacare down the nation's throat--with no input from the other party. None.
A nation--that is about to respond to that with Projectile Vomiting the crap right back up.
Sadly, that merely exacerbates the problem and makes it worse.
A LOT of time, effort and money was wasted needlessly.

Hard problems--are hard to solve.
The Founding Fathers saw forced compromise and considerable wrangling as the quintessence of creating a better, equitable society.
They were as right today--as they were in the 1700's.

strange how it was much less so before 1965.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

strange how it was much less so before 1965.

Quite true, but much has happened to the science of medicine. Which is very costly.
I think the days of kids going into medicine to become millionaires on a fast-track is going to be fading.
Old age expenses are probably the biggest mountain to climb currently. The cost is staggering.
And that is a tough one.
I know--I am right there.

 

[PLC1]

The truth is, the whole concept of medical care and how it is all constructed, connected, managed and run is the bigger problem.
Way too many hands needing to be crossed with a silver coin along the way.
That will be the final outcome of all this--some decades down the road.
Money should not be made in large quantity on the misery of others.
Everyone agrees on this--at some level.

Do they agree, really? The ones who are making a lot of money out of the misery of others are not going to be in agreement, and will do whatever it takes to keep the money flowing. That's what makes the "compromise" so difficult to achieve, and why no one seems to be able to get a handle on the runaway cost of health care.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Do they agree, really? The ones who are making a lot of money out of the misery of others are not going to be in agreement, and will do whatever it takes to keep the money flowing. That's what makes the "compromise" so difficult to achieve, and why no one seems to be able to get a handle on the runaway cost of health care.

I will re-iterate--because I think it is timely--

Hard problems--are hard to solve.
The Founding Fathers saw forced compromise and considerable wrangling as the quintessence of creating a better, equitable society.
They were as right today--as they were in the 1700's.

"These are the times that try men's souls."
The important thing, I think, is to always consider the forces of human nature in all of this.
People will want to get all they can, which is not necessarily ignoble.
But, where are the boundaries?
That is the hard part.
Like solving poverty.

 

[PLC1]

I will re-iterate--because I think it is timely--

Hard problems--are hard to solve.
The Founding Fathers saw forced compromise and considerable wrangling as the quintessence of creating a better, equitable society.
They were as right today--as they were in the 1700's.

"These are the times that try men's souls."
The important thing, I think, is to always consider the forces of human nature in all of this.
People will want to get all they can, which is not necessarily ignoble.
But, where are the boundaries?
That is the hard part.
Like solving poverty.

On that, we're in agreement. There are no simplistic solutions to complex problems, not ones that work anyway.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

On that, we're in agreement. There are no simplistic solutions to complex problems, not ones that work anyway.

That is the dilemma today.
Our leaders and those who run for office have been diminished--quality-wise--and we now are faced with NO leaders.
A ship without a rudder.
Look at Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.
They 'scream' this concept of paucity to the mountaintops.

 

[PLC1]

That is the dilemma today.
Our leaders and those who run for office have been diminished--quality-wise--and we now are faced with NO leaders.
A ship without a rudder.
Look at Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.
They 'scream' this concept of paucity to the mountaintops.

We elect them.

Are we just getting what we've voted for? Seems to me like the average voter bases his vote on TV ads and party loyalty, without really understanding what the issues are and where the candidates stand on those issues.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

We elect them.

Are we just getting what we've voted for? Seems to me like the average voter bases his vote on TV ads and party loyalty, without really understanding what the issues are and where the candidates stand on those issues.

Advertising rules the day.
Never underestimate the power of it.
Even when it goes under it's many aliases.

Obama. Perfect example.
+1 Race card.

 

[Cruella]

A lot of the 16 million, or whatever that number is, without insurance can afford it. Young people who are healthy don't buy it because they would rather spend their money on other things. And most of them can afford a visit to the doctor for a sore throat. The problem with this insurance, is that it's a one-size-fits-all policy. These same young people are going to be paying for other age/gender groups and their medical issues.

They are talking about a 1.7 trillion cost over then years. I had to laugh at that. You know governments history. When has anything ever cost less and come in at estimates with them? If this ever gets enacted, it will implode by it's own bureaucratic weight, leaving a lot of injured people in it's path.

 

[cashmcall]

This decision, in the end, will be a victory for Republicans. I have no doubt that it will result in a huge GOP win in November. And the GOP might even actually repeal Obamacare because, despite its unconstitutionality, it is simply bad law. It is unaffordable, irresponsible and unaccountable. It is overly expensive at $1.76 trillion and will increase taxes by $500 billion in the next 10 years. It puts bureaucrats between doctors and patients and ultimately will decrease the quality of care in the United States, just as similar measures in other countries have done.

It is also simply wrong in a free USA.