Breaking the shackles of faith

[Castle]

Actually the idea that we are being invaded by muslims is a fallacy - we only have about 5% of the population that claim to muslim. As far as having a backbone regarding islamofascists is concerned we prefer to get on with in and do it quietly. We do not need a patriot act, or a big media circus to deal with the bigots who twist the quaran for their own ends.

If you have ever heard of Abu Hamza then you will know that we deal with them in a firm and strict matter.

Oh really?! It seems islamist radicals have even infiltrated your universities attempting to recruit more islamofascists for the cause.

Of course I'm sure you'll assume that this too is a fallacy but you might want to take a look at this BBC article. I hate posting links, especially from the BBC, but this case demands an exception.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5411172.stm

-Castle

 

[9sublime]

This is cut and paste from this article: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/capustemp.htm

On university campuses across the country, tenured radicals teach their students that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter,” and that America is “the world’s greatest terrorist state.” The Middle Eastern Studies Association and more than 200 “Peace Studies” programs share the view that our terrorist enemies, however regrettable their public relations sense are in fact the voice of the world’s “oppressed” and that by challenging the United States they are advancing the cause of “social justice.”[1] ([1] For the views of one influential radical professor see Peter Collier and David Horowitz, The Anti-Chomsky Reader, Encounter Books 2004) Nor is the activity of these faculty radicals confined to academic theory. On every major American campus, radical professors are busily organizing anti-American “teach-ins” and demonstrations against the war, and providing their students with academic credit for joining the radical cause.

Perhaps the most notorious example of a professor’s active role in the terrorist jihad is that of Osama “Sami” al-Arian, a University of South Florida professor who before his arrest was the North American head of Palestinian Islamic Jihad, an organization that has murdered more than 100 people in suicide bombings in the Middle East, including two young Americans.

Al-Arian operated his terrorist network using the University of South Florida as a base of operations. Under university auspices, he created two “think tanks,” the World Islamic Studies Enterprise (WISE) and the Islamic Committee for Palestine, from which he leveraged campus authorities to invite, sponsor, and employ his fellow terrorists. WISE board member Tarik Hamdi delivered a satellite phone to Osama bin Laden in May 1998. Ramadan Abdullah Shallah also worked at WISE, and al-Arian proposed USF hire him as a professor before Shallah became Secretary-General of Palestinian Islamic Jihad (replacing the assassinated brother of another WISE board member). Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, the blind sheikh responsible for the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, was one of al-Arian’s invited speakers.

Al-Arian has solicited donations for Palestinian “martyrs” and publicly lauded violent acts of barbarism. He told one crowd, “We assemble today to pay respects to the march of the martyrs and to the river of blood that gushes forth and does not extinguish, from butchery to butchery, and from martyrdom to martyrdom, from jihad to jihad.” In a letter he wrote in the 1990s, al-Arian pleaded, “I call upon you to try to extend true support to the jihad effort in Palestine so that operations such as these can continue.”[4] (Unholy Alliance, op. cit. pp. 188-192. Thomas Ryan, "Lobby for Terror," FrontPage Magazine, April 28, 2004)
Why is this man not deported, you complain Britain takes a weak stance on homeland terror outside of attacks

 

[jb_1430]

Why is this man not deported, you complain Britain takes a weak stance on homeland terror outside of attacks

Because he has to finish serving his time in prison before he is deported.

MARK

 

[9sublime]

Well thats taking up your taxes.

 

[vyo476]

I detect a slithering from your topic on religion to another, seeking refuge from the first.
Carter was a peanut farmer, born into a family of modest means. Clinton's father was a traveling salesman, his stepfather was part owner of a small auto dealership, a compulsive gambler and alchoholic. Reagans family was barely middle class. Nixon was born to middle class Quaker parents. Lyndon Johnson was born into poverty. You dont have the slightest idea what you are talking about. MARK

In addition, several of the 19th Century presidents came from extremely modest means - especially Andrew Jackson and Andrew Johnson.

 

[rejs7]

I detect a slithering from your topic on religion to another, seeking refuge from the first.
Carter was a peanut farmer, born into a family of modest means. Clinton's father was a traveling salesman, his stepfather was part owner of a small auto dealership, a compulsive gambler and alchoholic. Reagans family was barely middle class. Nixon was born to middle class Quaker parents. Lyndon Johnson was born into poverty. You dont have the slightest idea what you are talking about. MARK

As I said in my original quote you still need the backing of the moneymen to get into power - no president has been elected who has not had the money there to campaign. This extends to religion as no out and out atheist has ever been president of the union - theist maybe, but never publically atheist.

 

[Justinian]

HA HA Good try you dishonest RAT

If America is so minded it could completely, and irrevocably, end once and for all the idea that church and state have the right to co-exist. As is clearly stated in the bible all chrisitans must give to Ceaser what is Ceaser etc, and the constitution also states irrafuteably that church & state must be seperated. Why then are the religious nut jobs determined to turn the law on its head, and make the rest of the country suffer a '1000 year reich' of christian oppression?

Is it because the rest of the citizens are like sheep, and are afraid to break away from the flock, or is it that the average citizen is more than comfortable in their own sty, and feel that it is needless to go wallow in their neighbours? Ultimately only a citizen wide backlash against the this fascism will work, but the media will not act for fear of their sponsorship being taken away by corporate america - where are the brave and the free? Where are the John Brown's and Luther Kings of this day and age?

Why don't you come out and tell people what you are instead of trying to fill their heads with your Propoganda LIES. Perhaps you think because 'the rest of citizens are sheep' that they'll believe everything you (who ever the hell you are) say and that nobody will defend them against cold, harm-intending snakes like yourself who want to uproot and destroy the very fabric of this country. You cleverly underhandedly and cowardly profess this because you either get off on people's misery or you think you know better than the very people that built, sought worked and died for America and left it for their children. Why don't you just tell everyone you're a vile, secular unitarian who has a completely different post-modern view of the world who believes everything from yesterday should be sacrificed in order to make room for new institutions that will either work terribly and cause extreme misery, work not as good as what was practiced previously or you won't replace them at all.

That's the truth of this whole thing and that's what you are and all your filthy bastard friends I've had to defend decency and virtue against all these years of debating politics.

And Now, I'm going to explain in detail once again how you're a liar and have an axe to grind.

It's kind of funny that most atheists are liberal and profess, the utilizing of perverted behavior is an exercise in freedom yet profess the bold-face lie that the government has the right and obligation to deny people their religious freedom. The constitution clearly states in case you've forgotten how to read or have a memory that comes and goes, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". You got that? That's the exact text so you can stop with your stupid lies. It clearly states the government has no right involving the citizens' practice of religion except the right to not be involved. Your-snake-in-the-grass, loophole Jargon about the constitution NOT saying the government cannot deny the practice of religion is wrong, sinister and designed to mislead. It's completely false which everyone can plainly see. Except you.

As for your "give to Caesar" crap that has nothing to do with the constitution that's not what Jesus meant at all and you must take me for a fool. Jesus was talking about Taxes and Rome always had a national Religion. So quit your cancer of your Stinking Lies. You don't fool me but you're trying to fool these people because you're some demented sick perverted fiend that has been raised to believe that our ancestral institutions create nothing but misery and the elimination of such is ideal and should have been done a long time ago. To take a guess, I'd say you were raised with only one parent for beginners but you're a very sick person indeed and I recommend everyone here not to persuade your minds to anything he has to write, at all what so ever. In fact, I'd say it's completely accurate that society is better off if YOU and people like YOU were in SHACKLES.

 

[9sublime]

Why don't you come out and tell people what you are instead of trying to fill their heads with your Propoganda LIES. Perhaps you think because 'the rest of citizens are sheep' that they'll believe everything you (who ever the hell you are) say and that nobody will defend them against cold, harm-intending snakes like yourself who want to uproot and destroy the very fabric of this country. You cleverly underhandedly and cowardly profess this because you either get off on people's misery or you think you know better than the very people that built, sought worked and died for America and left it for their children. Why don't you just tell everyone you're a vile, secular unitarian who has a completely different post-modern view of the world who believes everything from yesterday should be sacrificed in order to make room for new institutions that will either work terribly and cause extreme misery, work not as good as what was practiced previously or you won't replace them at all.

This shows you really are a true backward thinker. You don't want anything new. You will probably proclaim everything we need has been invented, like they said in the 1900's. You will probably claim that the world cannot get any better, and that we should go back to burning witches and that we need slavery back.

Trust me son, you are the one bound in shackles because you accept what you have been told about religion and can't see why anyone would want to be a 'post modern thinker' (whatever the hell you think that actually means). If your parents told you from birth that the Romans had religion sorted, and told you it every sunday in great detail with all their friends, you would have lapped it up.

Stop being so backward, look at yourself. You get so angry when people critise your religion, and you tell people to get wise and go to church. You are so stuck in your ways its unbelievable.

 

[Justinian]

And here it is

You've just admitted to me you're a cowardly fool. I knew you were a fool from the beginning but I didn't know you were such a coward and a liar. Liberals are cowards by nature and I'll tell you why. Conservatives are the ones who fight the wars and stand up for what they believe in. All liberals do is pick up the pieces when an injustice is made. They just simply change their thinking and then tell us we're backward. You ignorant fool. You're the one who's backward you barbarous vomitous mass. All that BS you preach that you think is such a swell idea only leads to ruin which you would understand if you ever fought for anything beneficial to more than yourself. I know your works and I know your kind. You're all a bunch of piss-ant nancy pantsies who risk nothing, feel they can do whatever they want in the consequence-free environment of America and then kick and yell from underneath your bed when the sh- hits the fan you can't understand and your country needs you. Do you realize you're talking to a soldier who's group of friends are soldiers? You know nothing but create your own false point of view and then have the unnerving gaul to assert I am backward. You couldn't even understand the concept of societal gain and loss, you poor defenseless dog. I'm finished with you. Reply if you're that stubbornly ignorant but I refuse to waste my time with broken-spirited potholes like your friends and yourself.

 

[9sublime]

You make huge, innaccurate generalisations about me being a wimpy liberal, but you are all words, cleverly crafted spin with no real substance behind it but nationalist hate. You have no agenda, just anger you need to vent. So lets go from the top.

You've just admitted to me you're a cowardly fool. I knew you were a fool from the beginning but I didn't know you were such a coward. Liberals are cowards by nature and I'll tell you why. Conservatives are the ones who fight the wars and stand up for what they believe in. All liberals do is pick up the pieces when an injustice is made. They just simply change their thinking and then tell us we're backward. You ignorant fool. You're the one who's backward you barbarous vomitous mass.

I believe you are the one who wants institutions to never change or be replaced. I think I would rather be open to change than stay here in the 2st century dreaming of the 20th
Conservatives are the ones who fights war are they? Yes, because there has never been a socialist/communist etc. war ever. And great, war, fantastic, that makes your political stance worth the while.
As for being a wimpy liberal who simply cashes in on the mistakes of the government, thats not me. I don't change my views to rip it out of the government, but you change your views so that you can try and make sense out of a religion that in todays world makes no sense.
You are backward, you alone sir, not all conservatives. I'm not going to generalize all conservatives into a big group like you, because you are not a real conservative, you are just an angry, backward individual.

All that BS you preach that you think is such a swell idea only leads to ruin which you would understand if you ever fought for anything beneficial to more than yourself.

Because socialism/communism and almost all of the agendas of 'liberals' is never to do with helping out your fellow man. The far right wing you are with are pro ripping off the rest of the world off in a nationalist capitalist heaven with you lot on top, in the best interests of your country and rich people.

I know your works and I know your kind. You're all a bunch of piss-ant nancy pantsies who risk nothing, feel they can do whatever they want in the consequence-free environment of America and then kick and yell from underneath your bed when the sh- hits the fan you can't understand and your country needs you.

I'm not American. I believe there are two main types of liberals, if I have to group people. The ones who are scared of everything, and want a politically correct world, and the ones who want change for the good of mankind. I don't owe my country anything, I don't need to fight for it, as long as I pay my taxes I can do what I want and my government can't stop me. And I will critise what I think is wrong, rather than lash out at whoever bashes my government because I am so scared of change.

Do you realize you're talking to a soldier who's group of friends are soldiers?

Okay. Thanks for that. My cousins in the army, hes nothing like you, hes a well balanced individual with real beliefs and sense. You're just full of anger at the left wing.

You know nothing but create your own false point of view and then have the unnerving gaul to assert I am backward. You couldn't even understand the concept of societal gain and loss, you poor defenseless dog. I'm finished with you. Reply if you're that stubbornly ignorant but I refuse to waste my time with broken-spirited potholes like your friends and yourself.

Oh, the old I'm not going to reply. Nice one mate. You are backwards. You even said you are against any kind of change in institutions in your country. But the church can continually change what it believes can it? First, the popes say there is a hell and a heaven and purgatory, then the new pope says nobody goes to hell. He sounds a bit wet to me. I find religion something the weak part of people to hold on to, however strong they are as characters in general.

And chill out with the personal insults. Not really neccessary if you have a real point to say. Go play army men in your backyard.

 

[Justinian]

Hmmm

Sublime is forgetting it's because of principled, tough, swearing men like me that are cause for his very existance and his liberty to sleep at night. Backward, he says. Last I heard it was men like me that paved the course of history, the history in which whether he likes it or not he is a part of. It's so funny to keep running into these people. It really is. I don't know. You have to understand what I'm coming from and seen what I've seen to know how stupid and dependent these people are. It's staggering.

 

[palerider]

and the constitution also states irrafuteably that church & state must be seperated.

I would be interested in seeing where a separation of church and state is called for in the constitution.

Glancing at the first amendment, I see that congress may not prohibit me from freely exercising my religion and if getting elected and proposing legislation based on my moral values is how I choose to exercise my religion, then there is nothing to stop me so long as voters are willing to put me into office.

Explain to me how there could ever be a separation of church and state so long as religious people are not prohibited from running for office.

 

[rejs7]

Sublime is forgetting it's because of principled, tough, swearing men like me that are cause for his very existance and his liberty to sleep at night. Backward, he says. Last I heard it was men like me that paved the course of history, the history in which whether he likes it or not he is a part of. It's so funny to keep running into these people. It really is. I don't know. You have to understand what I'm coming from and seen what I've seen to know how stupid and dependent these people are. It's staggering.

Actually the world we live in is based on the antithisis of your very religion. America has survived in spite of the claptrap espoused by all denominations of biblical nonsense (including the mormons). Indeed everytime some jumped up preacher or GOP grandee has tried to make the nation a 'better' place he has been slapped down - Lincoln may have been republican, but he sure acted like a modern democrat.

One only has to look at the islands of calm that the democratic presidents have represented - FDR, Kennedy, and Clinton - in the sea of GOP ininquity. In Clinton could be called up for a blowjob by his aid, then why not G W Bush for his great big blow job on the nation?

Just because I choose to think, does not make me weak or feable - I choose to fight my battles in a strategic sense, not in some half cocked Custer-esque marterdom.

Men like you do not make history - rather they follow meekly as their leaders beckon with false hope and false promise. There is no god in heven, just as there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. You are like a bull with a ring through his nose - angry, bitter, and frustrated as you watch me wander pass along my avenues of free thought.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

I would be interested in seeing where a separation of church and state is called for in the constitution.

Don't hold your breath. I already asked her and she failed to produce.

 

[vyo476]

I would be interested in seeing where a separation of church and state is called for in the constitution.

Let's put this one to rest once and for all, shall we?

The term "separation of church and state" originated from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a church in Connecticut that mentions a "wall of separation between church and state." Even this does not mean "throw all the Christians out of the government"; it simply means, "make sure the Church and the government are two separate organizations." And they are - while someone may be a member of both no one is given special privileges in one because of membership in the other.

You will find that none of the founding fathers considered expelling all religion from the government at any time. Most of them were deists, and deist philosophy riddles the Constitution - especially the Bill of Rights. 10 Commandments, 10 Amendments...gee, that must have been a mistake, huh?