Buy From China

[numinus]

The deeper lesson is that countries where the people are free will succeed and countries where they are not won't.

No.

The deeper lesson is that unbridled capitalism has dissected the world into two distinct parts -- the haves and the have nots. This is not a consequence of some natural historical force -- any more than the existence of a master and his slave is a natural social order. It is a deeply contrived state of affairs perpetuated by the impetus of colonialism in its various incarnations.

Now, since communism and socialism cannot exist where the people are free they will fail. After all the basic tenet of socialism is that the state will take money from the people and the people are not free to own their own money.

No.

Primitive communalism has succeeded within a particular stage of human development.

So did slave societies. So did feudalism. So did capitalism -- a natural and inevitable progression that would lead to socialism, and ultimately, communism.

The ideal of any political theory is a society WHERE PEOPLE DO THINGS TO BETTER THEMSELVES, and in the process, society at large. All other options leads to self-annihilation.

Capitalism, therefore, is a necessary evil -- as all the modes of production that came before it are, themselves, necessary evils.

Only in capitalism was the wealth of the human race so concentrated that made the leaps in technology possible. Such advances MUST NOW BE MADE TO SERVE A GREATER AND COMMON GOOD -- NOT THE WHIMS OF INDIVIDUALS OBSESSED IN THE PURSUIT OF MORE WEALTH.

We have that here in the US too, but it does not characterize our system, it is just an unfortunate part of it. This theft by congress is morally and inherently wrong but it is a neccessary evil and there are limits set by the constitution. When we cross the line and this is not just a part of who we are but defines who we are then all is lost. We need to fight this trend kicking and screaming.

The american constitution enshrines the pursuit of happiness as an inalienable aspect of every individual. That is self-evident. However, such pursuit may not be made at the expense of other people -- certainly not at the expense of future generations.

There is no other stage of human economic activity that has used more natural resources, created more pollution and caused more human misery than capitalism.

Such profligacy is simply unsustainable.

"As a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights. Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions."
-- James Madison, National Gazette essay, March 27, 1792

What if YOUR MATERIAL POSSESSION is the very thing that endangers human existence? What then?

"The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite."
-- Thomas Jefferson

The very nation that epitomizes self-governance is the same nation that perpetuates instability in various corners of the world today.

American foreign policy, backed by vastly superior military force was never meant for anything EXCEPT the protection of american interests abroad.

"There are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."
-- James Madison, speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 16, 1788

We must confine ourselves to the powers described in the Constitution, and the moment we pass it, we take an arbitrary stride towards a despotic Government."
-- James Jackson, First Congress, 1st Annals of Congress, 489

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to E. Carrington, May 27, 1788

Sadly, these principles were meant to apply to americans alone.

"When all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Exactly.

 

[Andy]

I can understand people like you frothing in the mouth in academic discussions. You are not only hampered by your own prejudice, you can only view social phenomona in 'pure' terms.

Your idea of 'pure' anything is a vain effort by your incompetent mind to comprehend something that is simply beyond it. At best, it merely serves to perpetuate a rigid and impenetrable prejudice -- which you have the temerity to peddle as intellectualism.

I note again how you didn't actually respond to any of the evidence. I accept your defeat. Been fun talking to you.

 

[numinus]

I note again how you didn't actually respond to any of the evidence. I accept your defeat. Been fun talking to you.

I suppose it would be cruel and unusual punishment to deprive you of your delusions.

Do they let you out of your cell often in that institution they are holding you in?

 

[Andy]

I suppose it would be cruel and unusual punishment to deprive you of your delusions.

Do they let you out of your cell often in that institution they are holding you in?

Delusions are untrue opinions. You, not responding to the evidence, given by me, in your last 3 posts, is a documented fact. Proves once again you have as little ability to insult, as you do to respond. Again, I accept your non-response as utter defeat.

I would ask that you respond to the evidence, but since I know you can not, and will not, then why don't you just sit down. The class is already dismissed. You have nothing more to say.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I haven't laughed this hard in a while! Thanks for the entertainment, Andy.

 

[numinus]

Delusions are untrue opinions. You, not responding to the evidence, given by me, in your last 3 posts, is a documented fact. Proves once again you have as little ability to insult, as you do to respond. Again, I accept your non-response as utter defeat.

I would ask that you respond to the evidence, but since I know you can not, and will not, then why don't you just sit down. The class is already dismissed. You have nothing more to say.

I responded to your alleged evidence. That you cannot understand the response, nor your own evidence in the first place, is not really my problem.

So, before talking about gdp, you might want to get a real education.

 

[Andy]

I responded to your alleged evidence. That you cannot understand the response, nor your own evidence in the first place, is not really my problem.

So, before talking about gdp, you might want to get a real education.

You never did. Still have not. And you won't, because you can't. We know you can't because anyone who thinks privately owned businesses is proof of successful socialism in insane. Just like fat americans is support for amnesty is insane. Take your own advice and get an education yourself. Oh wait your insane, which explains your view that Socialists in China complaining about the capitalistic economy is proof that socialism works. [SARCASM] You sure showed me Numinus... [/SARCASM]

 

[numinus]

You never did. Still have not. And you won't, because you can't. We know you can't because anyone who thinks privately owned businesses is proof of successful socialism in insane. Just like fat americans is support for amnesty is insane. Take your own advice and get an education yourself. Oh wait your insane, which explains your view that Socialists in China complaining about the capitalistic economy is proof that socialism works. [SARCASM] You sure showed me Numinus... [/SARCASM]

And what evidence have you provided, eh?

That 70% of china's gdp is in the private sector? Not only is that statistic questionable, it does not say anything about the country's dominant mode of production. And the equation for gdp clearly demonstrates this.

So, in fact, I have responded in the exact measure that your alleged evidence deserves.

 

[Andy]

And what evidence have you provided, eh?

That 70% of china's gdp is in the private sector? Not only is that statistic questionable, it does not say anything about the country's dominant mode of production. And the equation for gdp clearly demonstrates this.

So, in fact, I have responded in the exact measure that your alleged evidence deserves.

Yes the statistic is questionable. Fan Gang indicated that the percentage was likely higher due to undocumented private sector jobs and business. So, your absolutely right, likely even more of PRCs GDP is under private control.

You have not responded at all. Your 'responses' are incoherent, unsupportable, illogical, and in many case flat out idiocy. Rendering them not responses at all. However, I expect this from you since you can not respond. My case is air tight, documented, and widely supported. I have given links to stories, links to statistics, and person evidence. Even Socialists in China complain that they need to go back to socialism, which again renders your insanity completely laughable, and I am laughing at you! Every post

 

[numinus]

Yes the statistic is questionable. Fan Gang indicated that the percentage was likely higher due to undocumented private sector jobs and business. So, your absolutely right, likely even more of PRCs GDP is under private control.

You have not responded at all. Your 'responses' are incoherent, unsupportable, illogical, and in many case flat out idiocy. Rendering them not responses at all. However, I expect this from you since you can not respond. My case is air tight, documented, and widely supported. I have given links to stories, links to statistics, and person evidence. Even Socialists in China complain that they need to go back to socialism, which again renders your insanity completely laughable, and I am laughing at you! Every post

Sigh.

In view of the EQUATION FOR GDP, is there any sense in the notion that it is 'in private control'?

And if you still don't get it -- CONSUMPTION is included in GDP. And is there such a thing as a socialist or capitalist consumption?

You are foolish and continuing to stoop to your level has become such a chore.

 

[Andy]

Sigh.

In view of the EQUATION FOR GDP, is there any sense in the notion that it is 'in private control'?

And if you still don't get it -- CONSUMPTION is included in GDP. And is there such a thing as a socialist or capitalist consumption?

You are foolish and continuing to stoop to your level has become such a chore.

Right well.. since you don't understand... take it up with Fan Gang and the Washington Post, Business Week, Wall Street Journal, common dreams org, World Press, Slate, Research Institute of Economy, Trade and Industry, Spiegel International, Forbes, Herald Tribune, The New York Times and that's just a small start...

None of them have even a slight problem figuring out what you apparently can not. Further, they have far better research than you, better evidence than you, and clearly better intelligence than you. But... just as important, how about you prove it to the people of China, that they are not Capitalist!

From "The China Daily" in China, written in Chinese, a native columnist printed this translated quote:

As you wait for 90 minutes to get your visa stamped at the airport, crushed between traveling Chinese and visiting investors, you can feel that you are in a country engaged in extreme capitalism.

Not only is China not a communist country anymore, but it may also now be the world's most capitalist country in terms of raw energy. Indeed, I believe history will record that it was Chinese capitalism that put an end to European socialism.

Now now, little Nummy... *pats head* why do you think you know so much more than everyone else on the entire planet? Is it safer for you?

Again.. you are free to go. Class has been dismissed.

 

[numinus]

Right well.. since you don't understand... take it up with Fan Gang and the Washington Post, Business Week, Wall Street Journal, common dreams org, World Press, Slate, Research Institute of Economy, Trade and Industry, Spiegel International, Forbes, Herald Tribune, The New York Times and that's just a small start...

None of them have even a slight problem figuring out what you apparently can not. Further, they have far better research than you, better evidence than you, and clearly better intelligence than you. But... just as important, how about you prove it to the people of China, that they are not Capitalist!

From "The China Daily" in China, written in Chinese, a native columnist printed this translated quote:

​

Now now, little Nummy... *pats head* why do you think you know so much more than everyone else on the entire planet? Is it safer for you?

Again.. you are free to go. Class has been dismissed.

Nothing on gdp? For someone who bases his entire argument on a single sentence on gdp, you are curiously silent about it.

What idiot would use the words of a columnist in an economic debate, is simply beyond me.

Didn't your mother teach you not to interrupt your betters in conversation?

 

[Andy]

Nothing on gdp? For someone who bases his entire argument on a single sentence on gdp, you are curiously silent about it.

What idiot would use the words of a columnist in an economic debate, is simply beyond me.

Didn't your mother teach you not to interrupt your betters in conversation?

Yes she did. I am not violating that rule with you.

Did your mother teach you the proverb 'it is better for a man to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open his mouth and prove it'? Of course it's a bit late for you since you have proven it about 15 times in this thread alone, and dozens more in other threads.

Many of the articles listed did mention GDP. If you had actually bothered to check my evidence, you would know that. Oops but then that would damage your fragile foolish and unsupportable argument. Again, go prove them wrong first, then maybe anyone here will listen to you. Actually I doubt that. Your credibility on many topics is very low. Already 3 people have specifically mentioned that you never have a point. Not surprisingly, you continue the pointless ranting trend here as well.

You know, if you believe you are actually right about anything you have said, you could make millions taking these hundreds of people to court. After you lose your court battle (if the judge stops laughing long enough to take you seriously), come back and tell us how right you are, and how wrong the entire population of Earth is. "As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool (Nummy) returns to his folly." -Proverbs.

 

[numinus]

Yes she did. I am not violating that rule with you.

Did your mother teach you the proverb 'it is better for a man to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open his mouth and prove it'? Of course it's a bit late for you since you have proven it about 15 times in this thread alone, and dozens more in other threads.

Many of the articles listed did mention GDP. If you had actually bothered to check my evidence, you would know that. Oops but then that would damage your fragile foolish and unsupportable argument. Again, go prove them wrong first, then maybe anyone here will listen to you. Actually I doubt that. Your credibility on many topics is very low. Already 3 people have specifically mentioned that you never have a point. Not surprisingly, you continue the pointless ranting trend here as well.

You know, if you believe you are actually right about anything you have said, you could make millions taking these hundreds of people to court. After you lose your court battle (if the judge stops laughing long enough to take you seriously), come back and tell us how right you are, and how wrong the entire population of Earth is. "As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool (Nummy) returns to his folly." -Proverbs.

Still nothing about gdp.

Ok. I'll make it easier for you.

Does the fact that you consume x amount of goods and services have anything to say about how these goods and services were made?

My ten year old just answered correctly, fyi.

 

[Andy]

Still nothing about gdp.

Ok. I'll make it easier for you.

Does the fact that you consume x amount of goods and services have anything to say about how these goods and services were made?

My ten year old just answered correctly, fyi.

Nothing, never said it did. But since the producer of those goods and services can be determined, how does this change the fact that 70% of the GDP is created by private industry?

Opps, maybe your ten year old can answer that one since you have failed thus far. Even Forest Gump's kid was smarter than himself.