Communism

Ultimately, probably so.



1)But that is just it.. I would never "need" to fly anywhere, I could have a perfectly happy life taking a car, or horse, or train, or ship. The only thing that would necessitate my creating an airplane is my innate greed to get there more quickly and more efficiently.



2)That is absurd, if all "production hours" are equal, then why wouldn't I just spend fifty hours on a chair that should only take two, and therefore get more for less? Just because I spent 50 hours making something does not mean it has a value of 50 hours to anyone else... nor should it.



3)So whoever is using something would own it?

1) Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?:rolleyes: And no you wouldn't have a perfectly happy life if you were forced to traverse the atlantic on ship it would take weeks and you would get sick.

2) Hours of production not hours of thumb twiddling.

3)In a lot of cases yes.
 
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1) Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?:rolleyes: And no you wouldn't have a perfectly happy life if you were forced to traverse the atlantic on ship it would take weeks and you would get sick.

I can be perfectly happy without going to Europe...

Look at this from a business perspective..I don't need to expand overseas because I am already making plenty of money here, but I want to expand overseas because I can make more. Therefore, my greed, and the desire to make more money, brings about a scenario in which I will expand overseas.

2) Hours of production not hours of thumb twiddling.

Don't blame me, I just hammer slower than other people. Who is going to monitor that?

3)In a lot of cases yes.

So basically you cannot really "own" anything because if you leave your house, someone might come in and "use" it and then it would be theirs?
 
Your mistake is in assuming communism is a form of government, true communism abolishes the government all together.

If it is true that the purpose of a communist [sic] state were to make way for utopian socialism why did the Soviets not step aside?

Communism is the form of government called for to abolish property rights and confiscate wealth. Utopian Socialism is the "system" (not really a form of government) meant to replace the Communist government once it achieved its goals. ....So sayeth Marx and Engels in the Communist Manifesto:

Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production. - Communist Manifesto

They hoped that establishing a "despotic" state would serve it's intended purpose of abolishing property rights before itself being abolished in order to create Utopian Socialism but as we know, that didn't happen.

The Soviets did not step aside because power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Once the state had concentrated all the wealth and power in the hands of the people running the state, the ruling class didn't want to give up that power. The result was a perpetual "despotic" state that ruled with an iron fist and hid behind an iron curtain to sheild itself from threats to the power of the elites holding the reigns.
 
Communism is the form of government called for to abolish property rights and confiscate wealth. Utopian Socialism is the "system" (not really a form of government) meant to replace the Communist government once it achieved its goals. ....So sayeth Marx and Engels in the Communist Manifesto:

"Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate."
 
1)I can be perfectly happy without going to Europe...

Look at this from a business perspective..I don't need to expand overseas because I am already making plenty of money here, but I want to expand overseas because I can make more. Therefore, my greed, and the desire to make more money, brings about a scenario in which I will expand overseas.



2)Don't blame me, I just hammer slower than other people. Who is going to monitor that?



3)So basically you cannot really "own" anything because if you leave your house, someone might come in and "use" it and then it would be theirs?

1) I get what your sayin and I agree. But do you get what I was getting at?

2) Their is a limit to how much you can screw off before somone notices. I assume their would be people there to monitor that.

3) Key phrase "Most Cases".
 
"Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate."

A "classless and stateless" society is Utopian Socialism, Communism was offered as the means to that end. When Marx and Engels called for a "Dictatorship of the proletariat", they weren't arguing for a "classless and stateless" society but the creation of an authoritarian state run by the proletariat with the power to abolish property rights and reorder society by use of physical force. Once those goals were accomplished, the state was to be dismantaled by the proletariat and the "classless and stateless" society of Utopian Socialism would replace it.
 
A "classless and stateless" society is Utopian Socialism, Communism was offered as the means to that end. When Marx and Engels called for a "Dictatorship of the proletariat", they weren't arguing for a "classless and stateless" society but the creation of an authoritarian state run by the proletariat with the power to abolish property rights and reorder society by use of physical force. Once those goals were accomplished, the state was to be dismantaled by the proletariat and the "classless and stateless" society of Utopian Socialism would replace it.

so is totally free market economy helping all..its Utopian and unrealistic to mans nature.
 
so is totally free market economy helping all..its Utopian and unrealistic to mans nature.

Is that a question? If so, I say yes.

If you would rather have communism, go to a communist country. Then you needn't wait for it to happen here. If you really believe it, take action.

If you think we are currently in a free market economy, you are sadly mistaken. The free market disappeared long ago thanks to liberals and progressives.
 
A "classless and stateless" society is Utopian Socialism, Communism was offered as the means to that end. When Marx and Engels called for a "Dictatorship of the proletariat", they weren't arguing for a "classless and stateless" society but the creation of an authoritarian state run by the proletariat with the power to abolish property rights and reorder society by use of physical force. Once those goals were accomplished, the state was to be dismantaled by the proletariat and the "classless and stateless" society of Utopian Socialism would replace it.

You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own definitions and facts.
 
Communism= Gives you the right to Work

Communism= Gives you the right to free health

Communism= Gives you the right to free Housing

Communism= Gives you the right to rest and lesure

Communism= Gives you the right to higher education

Communism= Gives you the right to public happieness

But all those things above are called privileges in America. You must earn them theyre not rights
 
1) I get what your sayin and I agree. But do you get what I was getting at?

Yes, I see what you were getting at..I just don't agree.

2) Their is a limit to how much you can screw off before somone notices. I assume their would be people there to monitor that.

Who would monitor that?

3) Key phrase "Most Cases".

What cases would not count?
 
You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own definitions and facts.

I get my information about Communism and Utopian Socialism from the works of Karl Marx and Fredrick Engels but since you pasted the first paragraph about Communism from Wiki as your definition, I offer this from the same Wiki article:

Anarchist communism (also known as libertarian communism) is a theory of anarchism which advocates the abolition of the state, private property, and capitalism in favour of common ownership of the means of production,[20][21] direct democracy and a horizontal network of voluntary associations and workers' councils with production and consumption based on the guiding principle: "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".[22][23]

Anarcho-communism differs from marxism rejecting its view about the need for a State Socialism phase before building communism. WIKI

Marxist Communism does call for a "dictatorship of the proletariate" to take over the State and use the force of the state to make changes in society. If you insist that Communism does not call for this, then you are confusing Communism with Anarcho-Communism.
 
Communism= Gives you the right to Work

Communism= Gives you the right to free health

Communism= Gives you the right to free Housing

Communism= Gives you the right to rest and lesure

Communism= Gives you the right to higher education

Communism= Gives you the right to public happieness

But all those things above are called privileges in America. You must earn them theyre not rights

If you have a "right" to a job, health care, a home, leisure time, education, happiness.... Exactly who's responsible for providing you with a job, health care, a home, leisure time, education and happiness?
 
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If you have a "right" to a job, health care, a home, leisure time, education, happiness.... Exactly who's responsible for providing you with a job, health care, a home, leisure time, education and happiness?

The Government! Look the Private sector has the right not to hire you,,But if its the law they must hire you,, A Girl has the right to reject you for a date,,But if its the law then she must take you.A bank has the right to tell you do dont quilfy a new home but if its the law they must issue you a house. An University tell you according to your S.A.T tests you dont quilfy for this University but again if its the law they must take you in. Thats what Communism brings you. So freedom & Democracy doesnt work. All it does is create more crime & violance its even worse the Caesars roman days.
 
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