Death penalty discussion

[Dawkinsrocks]

The American Bar association

http://www.abanet.org/crimjust/spring2003/death_penalty.html

And lots of other places.

 

[honeybunny]

You racist

Poor people are more likely to be murderers and most black people are poor because up until 40 years ago the US operated a system of apartheid and the institutional racism in the US that facilltated that ensures that black people are impoverished and treated unjustly.

You are several times more likley to be convicted if you are black but that does not mean you committed the offence.

You should be ashamed of yourself

I don't care if people are muslim, black, white, poor...if their mommy and daddy were mean to them, etc. I am so sick of people making excuses for people that kill others, there is absolutely no excuse. I was poor, but that don't give me the right to kill someone...And I don't know if you were calling me racist specifically, or what, but I absolutely am not racist, I hate racism, and stereo-typing of any kind at all what-so-ever....statistics are legitimate tools in seeing the truth, plain and simple.

The civil war was a loooong time ago....and last I heard, one of the richest women in the world, was Oprah Winfrey, (whom I am a great fan of) and a black president is about to be in the whitehouse, (that I plan to vote for) But when are people going to stop making excuses for people's behavior?? I don't hear a bunch of native americans killing each other, if if they do, what would you say, "well, they are poor...we took their land, so that is why"....
As long as people are killing each other, no matter the reason, if they are killing people they need to stop...and if they are doing soooo much time, and they know they will, why do they keep doing it?

If they are doing too much time...here is a solution, they should stop killing people.
I don't think we should let them off the hook, and say, "well, they are black" GMAB Look at O.J. what kind of crap was that?? He killed 2 people...and there was DNA proving this...then he wrote a book, telling all the details that only a witness could know, and his black jury let him get off, while the mother of his children was dead, and her friend who was just trying to defend her.

 

[Federal Farmer]

Come on Federal farmer

Are you prepared to be executed for a crime you didn't commit?

I put my life on the line for this country, knowing full well that I could be killed at any time, so the answer to your question is YES. If my death, as an innocent, will serve the purpose of deterring heinous crimes, and thereby help safeguard the people of this nation, then that IS a price I am fully prepared to pay, and would consider it to be a continuation of the Oath I took low those many decades ago.

Oh, and BTW, I notice you haven't had much to say about the fact that the crime rate in your own country has gone up EXPONENTIALLY since you eliminated the death penalty, including the year immediately following that frivolous insanity.

 

[Federal Farmer]

What if your son was executed for something you KNEW he didn't do...what if an eye witness described him, and pulled him out of the line-up, and somehow DNA ended up in his house, but you KNEW he didn't do it?

The only way I could KNOW that he couldn't have done it is if he were physically in my presence at the time the crime was committed. If not, then I cannot KNOW that he didn't do it. I can surmise that he didn't do it, I can believe that he didn't do it, but I wouldn't KNOW that he didn't do it.

 

[Federal Farmer]

The death penlaty is not a deterrent.

In 1965 the UK abolished the death penalty.

If your argument is right then there would have been a big increase in murders in 1966 when the 'deterrent' was taken away.

There wasn't and the same stats appy everywhere, other things being equal.

That is proof.

I see you didn't bother to even read the data I presented earlier that totally contradicts your specious assumption. in 1966, the year immediately following the abolition of the death penalty in England, the homicide rate did go up, by 15%. The deterrent was removed, the homicides increased and THAT is a FACT. Not only that, but since 1965 when England lost it's 'stones', your homicide rate had increased by 238%, in Scotland it's increased by 200%, and in Northern Ireland it's increased by 900%. THOSE ARE THE FACTS.

In the US, in the years following the 1972 decision when SCOTUS suspended the death penalty, like England, our homicide rates increased, but since the death penalty has been re-introduced, our homicide rates have dropped by 34% from the 1972 levels, and by more than 45% from it's all time high in 1980 when most States still hadn't re-introduced the death penalty.

OOPS, another faulty liberal hypothesis shot all to Hell by facts and evidence.

 

[Federal Farmer]

You racist

Poor people are more likely to be murderers and most black people are poor because up until 40 years ago the US operated a system of apartheid and the institutional racism in the US that facilltated that ensures that black people are impoverished and treated unjustly.

You are several times more likley to be convicted if you are black but that does not mean you committed the offence.

You should be ashamed of yourself

YOU'VE got a lot of nerve calling anyone a racist! After all, it was the British Empire, under King George I, II, and III who forcibly brought black slaves to America in the first place. If ANYONE needs to be ashamed, it's YOU, and your entire "empire" for YOUR heinous crimes against humanity.

Apartheid? It was YOUR countrymen who INVENTED apartheid, and it was YOUR countrymen who enforced it upon the black NATIVES of S. Africa, the brown natives of India, and every other one of your "colonies" in your bloody history. HELL, it was your own British Foreign Office minister Peter Hain who recently proclaimed that Britain is very close to forcing blacks into a permanent underclass IN ENGLAND, that parallels, or even surpasses that in S. Africa! Racism in Canada isn't any better either, especially in their dealings with the various Tribes, so don't EVEN begin to think that you have any grounds to even TRY to use the race card on ANYONE.

 

[honeybunny]

The only way I could KNOW that he couldn't have done it is if he were physically in my presence at the time the crime was committed. If not, then I cannot KNOW that he didn't do it. I can surmise that he didn't do it, I can believe that he didn't do it, but I wouldn't KNOW that he didn't do it.

Well, I'm a mom....and yes, I CAN KNOW, sorry, that you don't have that ability, but anyways, you cannot deny the fact that there have been many, many people that WERE on DEATH ROW, or serving a sentence in prison, and they have been released because DNA evidence proved that someone else comitted that crime....now, if they had been put to death, it would be too late...

Here I sit....I used to be completely for the death penalty..my parents were as well, and I was brought up with that mindset...but after reading a true story about how a black man was rail roaded in the south, and convicted of killing this little white girl, and he was finally proved to be innocent, yeah, I realized that the death penalty would seem like the best option, especially when I, as a taxpayer am feeding and providing shelter to these criminals, but it's that slight chance...that slight chance that the wrong person will take the fall...I don't trust our judicial system to be 100% certain that someone did it...The way the lawyers can make even the most circumstantial evidence seem like an open and shut case....and the way some people get stuck with a crappy lawyer, I just can't say that I am still for the death penalty.

 

[Libsmasher]

The only two credible arguments imo re the death penalty are

1. It is degrading to society to carry out such sentences.

2. A mistake can never be undone.

However, the possibility of mistakes must be weighed against the deterrent effect of executed guilty criminals, and also the certainty that they will never kill again.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Federal farmer puts his life on the line all the time for his country???

What, you mean every time you go into MacDonalds??

And you would be prepared to be executed for a crime you didn't commit??

And you would be prepared to have your (clearly fictitious) son executed for a crime he didn't commit???

I know that further proof is not really required but this does demonstrate that you are a lunatic.

 

[dahermit]

The American Bar association

http://www.abanet.org/crimjust/spring2003/death_penalty.html

And lots of other places.

45% Blacks who were exonerated with evidence to 42% for Whites is not a statistical significant difference.

 

[9sublime]

Federal farmer, you are on your final warning on this board.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

45% of blacks are exonerated v 42% of whites and you say that is not a significant difference.

That is because you do not realise that it is even harder for blacks to get exonerated than to get a fair trial in the first place.

How many white people were lynched in the south?

What is the black equivalent of the KKK?

And where does your president come from?

If you don't understand that you live in an institutionally racist country you are doped up on apple pie.

Go checxk the support for Obama in white blue collar males.

How much of the population is non-white and how much of the senate is non-white.

Go figure that one SFB

 

[Mr. Shaman]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is this FINALLY the begining of the END of Prosecutors using high body-counts as a stepping-stone to the U.S. Senate????!!​

"The Supreme Court will consider whether prosecutors have to face a lawsuit from two men whose convictions for killing a retired police officer were set aside.

They are being sued by Curtis W. McGhee Jr., and Terry Harrington, who were convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison in 1978 for the death of retired police officer John Schweer.

The men were released from prison after 25 years. Evidence showed police and prosecutors had failed to share evidence that pointed to another man as a possible suspect in Schweer's slaying. Some witnesses also recanted their testimony.

McGhee and Harrington filed lawsuits against the former prosecutors, including former County Attorney Dave Richter and his assistant Joseph Hrvol. They claimed authorities were eager to charge someone and that they were targeted because they are black. They also sued current County Attorney Matt Wilber after he suggested the right men had been convicted.

The case is Pottawattamie County v. McGhee, 08-1065."​