Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?

Gnostic Christian Bishop

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Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?


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http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/20/comparative-theodicy/

“Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.”

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http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/original_sin.html

From John Galt's speech, in Atlas Shrugged.

“What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call his Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge—he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil—he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor—he became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desire—he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joy—all the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man’s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he was—that robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without love—he was not man.

Man’s fall, according to your teachers, was that he gained the virtues required to live. These virtues, by their standard, are his Sin. His evil, they charge, is that he’s man. His guilt, they charge, is that he lives.”


Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Gen 3;22 And the LORD God said: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil;


Do you see Eden as our Original Sin or as our Original Virtue?


Regards

DL
 
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Original sin is just more Catholic guilt. I don't think the Jews have ever thought of themselves as evil needing baptism. Their mindset has always been as some precious chosen people.

The Catholic philosophers including Anselm came up with the original sin doctrine. It sounded good so the Popes adopted it as well.

St. Paul talks about death being the result of Adam's transgressing and of Christ redeeming humankind from death with resurrection. There is no serious original sin concept other than Paul's thoughts in the New Testament Bible.
 
Possibly the idea of eternal hell is of Catholic origin. Bible Greek and Hebrew does not suggest such a place. Of course, another massively cruel and illogical Catholic thing was the idea of infant baptism, which they now don't practice as harshly. For instance, in the past, infants who were not baptized were officially considered marked for damnation.
 
Possibly the idea of eternal hell is of Catholic origin. Bible Greek and Hebrew does not suggest such a place. Of course, another massively cruel and illogical Catholic thing was the idea of infant baptism, which they now don't practice as harshly. For instance, in the past, infants who were not baptized were officially considered marked for damnation.
Jesus talks about Hell a lot.

The Catholic Church cannot take credit for that. It is Christian ala Jesus himself.
 
The Garden of Eden story is first a tale of the origin of man dating from before anyone had any idea how mankind came to be on Earth. Today, we understand that it's merely an allegorical tale. It's not possible to start a breeding population from two individuals, at least not among higher animals.

On another level, it is an allegory of a first sexual encounter. The forbidden fruit was sex, the knowledge of good and evil was understanding what sex was all about, and, of course, once the commandment was broken, Adam and Eve could have children. After they were grown up and sexually active, they had to strike out in the world on their own.

At least, that's how I interpret it.
 
When you consider that Moses' account of his own birth in Egypt is strangely similar to that of Sargon Of Akkad, then you realize the whole "book" of "Genesis" (Bereshet in Hebrew) is just a story Moses came up with.
 
Jesus talks about Hell a lot.

The Catholic Church cannot take credit for that. It is Christian ala Jesus himself.


It depends on how you interpret New Testament Greek. Note, the Catholics had a huge hell agenda, mainly because they wanted to scare illiterate peasants into bowing down to them. Ultimately, one has to understand how illogical the hell doctrine really is.
 
Original sin is just more Catholic guilt. I don't think the Jews have ever thought of themselves as evil needing baptism. Their mindset has always been as some precious chosen people.

The Catholic philosophers including Anselm came up with the original sin doctrine. It sounded good so the Popes adopted it as well.

St. Paul talks about death being the result of Adam's transgressing and of Christ redeeming humankind from death with resurrection. There is no serious original sin concept other than Paul's thoughts in the New Testament Bible.

Indeed. Christianity is in the guilt creating business. People pay more to get well if they think they are ill.

Christianity is all about the money and they have done and are doing a lot of lying to get it.

Regards
DL
 
Possibly the idea of eternal hell is of Catholic origin. Bible Greek and Hebrew does not suggest such a place. Of course, another massively cruel and illogical Catholic thing was the idea of infant baptism, which they now don't practice as harshly. For instance, in the past, infants who were not baptized were officially considered marked for damnation.

It has been quite a long while, 30 years, since I read up on the origins of a hell but if I recall correctly, Zoroastrianism was be the oldest thinking of a hell as described by Christianity although the Egyptians did have a concept of hell. It is all the imagination of men and once a concept of hell is accepted, the blanks are just filled with the worst thing we can think of and if you have ever burned yourself, you will know that that is one of the worst pains you will ever feel.

Regards
DL
 
Jesus talks about Hell a lot.

The Catholic Church cannot take credit for that. It is Christian ala Jesus himself.

No argument but I think the Jesus most know was a Roman construct. Rome wasare known for their carrot or stick ways.

Regards
DL
The Garden of Eden story is first a tale of the origin of man dating from before anyone had any idea how mankind came to be on Earth. Today, we understand that it's merely an allegorical tale. It's not possible to start a breeding population from two individuals, at least not among higher animals.

On another level, it is an allegory of a first sexual encounter. The forbidden fruit was sex, the knowledge of good and evil was understanding what sex was all about, and, of course, once the commandment was broken, Adam and Eve could have children. After they were grown up and sexually active, they had to strike out in the world on their own.

At least, that's how I interpret it.

I agree that sex and reproduction was a major component in this myth.

In those days of tribes and city states with finite resources, too much reproduction led to child sacrifice just to insure that the productive population did not have to die for the sake of non-producing children.

Those were tough days in such communities.

Regards
DL
 
It depends on how you interpret New Testament Greek. Note, the Catholics had a huge hell agenda, mainly because they wanted to scare illiterate peasants into bowing down to them. Ultimately, one has to understand how illogical the hell doctrine really is.

Agreed.

It makes God look like a loser who cannot create for the best possible end.

Regards
DL
 
It depends on how you interpret New Testament Greek. Note, the Catholics had a huge hell agenda, mainly because they wanted to scare illiterate peasants into bowing down to them. Ultimately, one has to understand how illogical the hell doctrine really is.
Jesus himself embraced the notion of Hell and spoke of it quite often. From then on, it became very popular in Medieval art and literature, followed by the embracing of it by the early Christian Church (pre-Orthodox and pre-Protestant schisms). Like so many other Jewish and/or Christian teachings, it is related to Zoroastrianism indeed.
 
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Jesus himself embraced the notion of Hell and spoke of it quite often. From then on, it became very popular in Medieval art and literature, followed by the embracing of it by the early Christian Church (pre-Orthodox and pre-Protestant schisms). Like so many other Jewish and/or Christian teachings, it is related to Zoroastrianism indeed.

No argument but Jesus also peached against religious dogma and religion itself.

An example of this is working on the Sabbath. Jesus said that working was ok which went against those who wanted to stone people who worked it.

Jesus. --- The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. I extrapolate that to religions are made to serve man and not man serve religions.

At present, man is serving religions as they lord their carrot and sticks above the theists heads.

Regards
DL
 
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