Govt Motors sics its pitbulls on Ford

[PLC1]

Interesting. The article you posted claims to be the TRUTH about F&F, but essential says F&F has nothing to do with Holder or BO. And that Issa is on a witch hunt and his assertions that limiting gun rights was the real target is bunk...ironic the author would conclude this, which happens to be the same conclusion promoted by BO, Ds, and lib MSM.

The reporter is claimed to be a great investigative reporter by the MSM and well versed in the details of F&F. Forgive me for being suspicious of the motives of an MSM reporter....since nearly all of them are libs and Big Ears Lovers.

Actually, it said that there is no evidence that the ATF sold arms to Mexican drug cartels, which was the falsehood behind F and F, hence the "truth" behind it.

 

[TheJPRD]

No, I'm not among the "lefties" saying that Carl Rove and Dick Cheney " brilliantly planned every bad thing that happend (sic) in the USA during GW's entire administration.' You must have me mixed up with someone else, perhaps someone not even on this board.

Forgive me for confusing you with someone else who had argued that those GOP personalities were involved in conspiracies. Did I spell the word "happend" incorrectly? Your (sic) confused me.

I did think, and still do, that Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld, subscribers to the PNAC all, were the real force behind the invasion of Iraq, but then, that's a discussion for yet another thread.

You mean that they "conspired" to get us into war?

What is amazing to me is people who call themselves "conservatives", who have no faith in government, yet believe that it can pull off the most elaborate conspiracies successfully.

Government doesn't do anything, it's just a word, a "thing". Individual human beings do things, both good and bad, purposefully and by accident sometimes. We Conservatives don't put our trust in "things"! We put our trust in honorable, individual human beings with intelligence, good character, leadership skills, and strong ethical standards. Those kind of people make good government. Those devoid of such characteristics make bad government. The present human beings running our government are devoid of the necessary characteristics, and hence their governance stinks on ice. It's not the intelligence of those now in government that has allowed them to get away with their despicable conduct. It's the failure of those entities charged with keeping our government honest, the mainstream media! A 50,000 pound dragon can get away with murder if nobody is informed about the murder! The mainstream US media would probably declare that to even question the dragons intentions is "racial profiling"!

Did you notice the link I provided above? It seems a lot of what we believed about Fast and Furious was not true. What the truth is, I'm not sure.

I did indeed notice the link you posted. Like you, I'm not sure what occurred with Fast and Furious either....... neither do those writing the article to which you posted the link. As long as this Attorney General refuses to obey a legal subpoena, and as long as this President supports his AG's criminal behavior, none of us may ever know!

 

[Cruella]

Actually, it said that there is no evidence that the ATF sold arms to Mexican drug cartels, which was the falsehood behind F and F, hence the "truth" behind it.

He's an investigative reporter and he said that? There was never any discussion about the ATF selling directly to the drug cartels. But they did tell gun dealers to sell to known straw purchasers, knowning they would wind up with the cartels.

Check this out;

During a Senate Judiciary subcommittee hearing today on Capitol Hill, Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, who is facing pressure surrounding his role in the Obama Justice Department’s Operation Fast and Furious, asked for more gun control and blamed law abiding gun shop owners for violence in Mexico.

Breuer declared that nearly 70 percent of guns found in Mexico come from the United States, a figure that has been disproven by the National Rifle Association, FactCheck.org, PolitiFact and by Senator Charles Grassley’s office multiple times.

Breuer is/was head of the criminal division and he sent a false letter to Grassley denying any knowledge of F&F when it was later discovered he had known for about a year. Grassley even has a memo that Breuer sent to Holder even telling him how many guns and which drug cartels got them.

There are a lot of people out there that have been following F&F for a long time now and have very detailed information about it. A reporter with CBS was the one who broke the story and she's still covering it. Another one is at the Daily Caller, she even wrote a book on it and the Sipsey Street Irregulars have also been all over it.

This is a huge story and cover up. The media has chosen to not mention it at all or only briefly knowing it was a hot potato. They are only coming out now with "oh this is nothing" "it's a conspiracy" blah, blah, blah.

 

[dogtowner]

Actually, it said that there is no evidence that the ATF sold arms to Mexican drug cartels, which was the falsehood behind F and F, hence the "truth" behind it.

huh ? I should probably read the link but who exactly did they think they were walking the guns to ?

but never mind that, Holder perjured himself by denying detailed knowledge which we now know to be a falsehood. and lets face it, as Scooter Libby demonstrates, "I forgot" just won't fly.

but never mind that, Holder can be granted pardon by the prez so if that was all there was to it he could just have turned over what he was required to turn over yet he did not.

so who is the only person in the country who can't take one for the team ?

I'm just curious how damning what he's hiding IS !

I can think of one thing that bad but perhaps there are more.

 

[PLC1]

Forgive me for confusing you with someone else who had argued that those GOP personalities were involved in conspiracies. Did I spell the word "happend" incorrectly? Your (sic) confused me.



You mean that they "conspired" to get us into war?

No, they didn't conspire to anything. They had the power, they used it, they were given an excuse to invade, and Congress went along with it.

Government doesn't do anything, it's just a word, a "thing". Individual human beings do things, both good and bad, purposefully and by accident sometimes. We Conservatives don't put our trust in "things"! We put our trust in honorable, individual human beings with intelligence, good character, leadership skills, and strong ethical standards. Those kind of people make good government. Those devoid of such characteristics make bad government. The present human beings running our government are devoid of the necessary characteristics, and hence their governance stinks on ice. It's not the intelligence of those now in government that has allowed them to get away with their despicable conduct. It's the failure of those entities charged with keeping our government honest, the mainstream media! A 50,000 pound dragon can get away with murder if nobody is informed about the murder! The mainstream US media would probably declare that to even question the dragons intentions is "racial profiling"!

I see. So, if there is an honorable individual human being who is running for office, then you'd support them regardless of his/her political ideology.

I did indeed notice the link you posted. Like you, I'm not sure what occurred with Fast and Furious either....... neither do those writing the article to which you posted the link. As long as this Attorney General refuses to obey a legal subpoena, and as long as this President supports his AG's criminal behavior, none of us may ever know!

Those writing the article cited in the link had gone over thousands of pages of documents and interviewed everyone involved. I'm not about to go to such lengths myself, so I'll read what they have to say.

 

[TheJPRD]

I see. So, if there is an honorable individual human being who is running for office, then you'd support them regardless of his/her political ideology.

I listed multiple characteristics that we Conservatives insist upon in the candidates we support. Being "honorable" was one of them. "Intelligence" was another characteristic I listed that you failed to mention in your question. A person who is both "honorable" AND "intelligent" won't be found among todays liberal-progressive Democrats! You'll find some who are honorable, true. Given that they support the disastrous policies of their party, however, there's no way they're intelligent. There are other liberal-progressive Democrats who are very intelligent. Given their intelligence, they're fully aware that Democrat policies are disastrous for our nation...... hence, there can't be one ounce of "honor' among them! Oversimplifying complex issues is a trait shared by most liberals. You should guard against it in the future.

 

[PLC1]

I listed multiple characteristics that we Conservatives insist upon in the candidates we support. Being "honorable" was one of them. "Intelligence" was another characteristic I listed that you failed to mention in your question. A person who is both "honorable" AND "intelligent" won't be found among todays liberal-progressive Democrats! You'll find some who are honorable, true. Given that they support the disastrous policies of their party, however, there's no way they're intelligent. There are other liberal-progressive Democrats who are very intelligent. Given their intelligence, they're fully aware that Democrat policies are disastrous for our nation...... hence, there can't be one ounce of "honor' among them! Oversimplifying complex issues is a trait shared by most liberals. You should guard against it in the future.

If Democrat policies are disastrous for our nation, then why are Republicans adopting them?

Washington conservatives have gone the way of the whooping crane.

 

[TheJPRD]

If Democrat policies are disastrous for our nation, then why are Republicans adopting them?

I certainly agree that some Republicans are as dumb as most Democrats! That's one reason that I prefer the term "Conservative" to "Republican". We Conservatives have finally acknowledged the failure of many Republican politicians. We Conservatives are doing our best to replace those RINOs with Conservatives when we vote in GOP primaries. Your comment is consistent with my point that individual human beings can seldom be placed into neat buckets! I agree that all Republcans are not Conservatives. Is that the point you're making?

 

[PLC1]

I certainly agree that some Republicans are as dumb as most Democrats! That's one reason that I prefer the term "Conservative" to "Republican". We Conservatives have finally acknowledged the failure of many Republican politicians. We Conservatives are doing our best to replace those RINOs with Conservatives when we vote in GOP primaries. Your comment is consistent with my point that individual human beings can seldom be placed into neat buckets! I agree that all Republcans are not Conservatives. Is that the point you're making?

Republicans are not conservatives, the two major parties are as alike as Tweedledee and Tweedledum, the definition of "conservative" varies with the person using it, and it is hyperpartisanship that is the problem in Washington far more than anything else.

Those are my points, the same ones I keep making over and over, the ones that draw fire from the self described conservatives.

 

[Gipper]

Republicans are not conservatives, the two major parties are as alike as Tweedledee and Tweedledum, the definition of "conservative" varies with the person using it, and it is hyperpartisanship that is the problem in Washington far more than anything else.

Those are my points, the same ones I keep making over and over, the ones that draw fire from the self described conservatives.

And you will draw fire again. I can agree that the two parties are very much alike. But, the problem in DC is NOT hyper partisanship unless you are referring to the hard left that controls the Ds. How can the two parties be alike and also exhibit hyper partisanship? That makes no sense.

The Ds and Rs have worked in tandem for decades. This IS bi-partisanship!!! Their cooperation has resulted in giving the liberals just about everything they want. Hence, liberal policies have resulted in the disaster we are experiencing today.

 

[PLC1]

And you will draw fire again. I can agree that the two parties are very much alike. But, the problem in DC is NOT hyper partisanship unless you are referring to the hard left that controls the Ds. How can the two parties be alike and also exhibit hyper partisanship? That makes no sense.

The Ds and Rs have worked in tandem for decades. This IS bi-partisanship!!! Their cooperation has resulted in giving the liberals just about everything they want. Hence, liberal policies have resulted in the disaster we are experiencing today.

R's and D's did work together for a long time to try to solve the issues of the day. Today, they work for the party, not for the country, no compromises even though there is little difference between the philosophy of one as opposed to the other. The goal of the party is to get into power, stay in power, and fool the base into thinking that they, alone, are working for the good of the country.

How can hyperpartisanship be the problem when the two are so much alike? Think of a contest between two sports teams that are much alike. They will rah, rah, my team will win, go (whatever), which is fine for sports. Everything for the team is a good philosophy for football, not so much for political parties.

 

[dogtowner]

R's and D's did work together for a long time to try to solve the issues of the day. Today, they work for the party, not for the country, no compromises even though there is little difference between the philosophy of one as opposed to the other. The goal of the party is to get into power, stay in power, and fool the base into thinking that they, alone, are working for the good of the country.

How can hyperpartisanship be the problem when the two are so much alike? Think of a contest between two sports teams that are much alike. They will rah, rah, my team will win, go (whatever), which is fine for sports. Everything for the team is a good philosophy for football, not so much for political parties.

decades of bipartisanship got us umpteen trillion in debt. scratch my back and I'll scratch yours is fine when you're spending your own money but not when you're spending our money.

Reagan was wrong to sign those budgets. just going "they said..." is no excuse.

There is a difference now in that one side believes we have a spending problem and the other a taxing problem. I'm happy to have them butting heads over that.

 

[PLC1]

decades of bipartisanship got us umpteen trillion in debt. scratch my back and I'll scratch yours is fine when you're spending your own money but not when you're spending our money.

Reagan was wrong to sign those budgets. just going "they said..." is no excuse.

There is a difference now in that one side believes we have a spending problem and the other a taxing problem. I'm happy to have them butting heads over that.

They're both right, of course. We have a spending and a tax problem.

When Clinton was in office with a Republican Congress, we came closer to a balanced budget than we have in recent memory.

 

[dogtowner]

They're both right, of course. We have a spending and a tax problem.

When Clinton was in office with a Republican Congress, we came closer to a balanced budget than we have in recent memory.

thanks to a dot com driven megabooming economy. but yes, we got close to living within our means

 

[Gipper]

R's and D's did work together for a long time to try to solve the issues of the day. Today, they work for the party, not for the country, no compromises even though there is little difference between the philosophy of one as opposed to the other. The goal of the party is to get into power, stay in power, and fool the base into thinking that they, alone, are working for the good of the country.

How can hyperpartisanship be the problem when the two are so much alike? Think of a contest between two sports teams that are much alike. They will rah, rah, my team will win, go (whatever), which is fine for sports. Everything for the team is a good philosophy for football, not so much for political parties.

Yeah they work hard to solve the problems of the day....boy now...that is a bunch of BS. They DO work hard to screw Americans out of their property and liberty. When will you realize that the purpose of government is for those who run it to plunder those who don't???

You claim that hyperpartisanship is the problem. Did you get that from the lib MSM? Because that is exactly what those fools claim. Of course they blame the Rs entirely and never the Ds. You too?

We have endured roughly 100 years of liberal policies being implemented with the help of both parties. Starting with the first liberal fool Woodrow Wilson who gave us the Fed, IRS, income tax, and got us involved in WWI causing thousands of American deaths for nothing and leading us on interventionist policies that continue to this day. FDR gave us all sorts of government growth and expansion. Then LBJ pushed the liberal ball over the goal line with even more government entitlements programs that are bankrupting the nation today. Nixon gave us the burdensome EPA and took us off the gold standard. W gave us No Child Left Behind and Prescription Drugs for geezers, yet again expanding the welfare state. Now BO has spiked the football with another new entitlement in Obamacare....

now...can you name any major legislation enacted in the last 100 years by real conservatives that comes close to what the libs have done? Of course you can't because they do not exist.

And you blame hyperpartisanship....when the culprit is LIBERALISM!!!