How do you feel about abortion?

[historylass]

I think abortion is a delicate issue and, although I personally would like to see it made illegal, I can see that there would be problems with this. I would like to see people on both sides of the argument take their blinkers off and look at the other person's point of view. I would also like to see women becoming better informed about abortion. It seems that the general view of the pro-choice is that a woman has a choice and doesn't need to destroy her life for her child. Firstly, that child will have an effect on the woman for the rest of her life - either as a baby that was carried to term or the memory of an abortion. The guilt from having an abortion can wreck a life too. Also, an abortion is not always a women's choice. Many women feel like they have to have an abortion because of pressure from men.

On the other side, the pro-life people have to recognise that, for some people, having an abortion really may be the best option. I am not sure that women whose life will be in danger and who have been raped should be forced to carry a baby to term.

 

[BlackGarden]

I am very much pro-choice. Pro-life is a disgusting term, nothing more than glittery words slapped onto an idea which is essentially pro-cruelty, pro-misery, and pro-... ok I don't have a third, but you get the idea. The idea that you would force an unwanted child into the world, force that child to be brought up in a possibly poor family, unloved by its mother, is disgraceful. Until around 6 months, a foetus does not form the parts of the brain that make it self-aware. Up to that point, in my opinion (and this is going to sound pretty harsh) it is essentially a parasite. How can it be immoral to terminate something which does not yet have the self-awareness that makes it human?

Another big issue is rape. You cannot possibly force a woman to give birth to the result of such a traumatic experience.

The only arguments against abortion are religious, not scientific, and in a free country you cannot force your religion down somebody else's throat, even less into their womb.

 

[destiny_star200]

My belief with abortion is pretty simple and straight forward.

Abortions should not be a means of birth control which alot of woman may as well use it for.
And abortion should only be legal if the abortion is requested within a 1-2 month time scale for serious issues such as rape etc.

I dont believe in abortion myself and I would never contemplate doing it.
Although I've never been in the position to choose to keep a child or not,
I still believe I would not go through with one as at the end of the day I see a pregnancy as a child from the very first day of conception.

 

[dong]

(you might want to read the bottom of the post before you read the top!)

Quick quip: You'll inevitably run into alot of problems with the 1-2 month period. Typically, a pregnancy is not detected until the onset of the significant morning sickness symptoms etc. at around at least 8 weeks gestation.

Also, a pregnancy as a child from the very first day of conception...this is fine so long as the connotations of the term "child" here remain consistent with the moral principles and empirical facts they are supposed to reflect. In this case, one should really note that conception is far from the final step in a pregnancy- and along the way, a significant proportion of them abort/miscarry without external intervention, due to some fatal failure of a developmental process. This applies to anything from "biochemical pregnancies" where conception takes place but the embryo is unviable and the menstrual cycle continues as normal (thus literally flushing your child down the toilet), to monosomies, ectopic pregnancies (both fatal), or anacephalies (stillborn or survive maybe a coupla minutes). Then further along the spectrum are the mutations and problems that do lead to a live child birth are those with spina bifida, thalassaemias, trisomies (Downs Syndrome), and the list goes on and on and on.

This part has nothing to do with the actual question of abortion directly. Only, it is supposed to draw our attention to what the entity of a "child" entails; as I wrote somewhere on page 1 and 2, there exists a spectrum that the pragmatic nature of US legislation cannot circumvent, and there is also a plethora of other considerations that we must make when making a judgment.

All that said (phew!) I do understand what you mean by "a means of birth control" as it appears to me somewhat morally repugnant- the connotation here seems to be the action is made with only the self in regard, and I am fairly sure that this would be the case. For others though, this would be no less than a terrible decision to make, regardless of the factors that might speak for such.

 

[destiny_star200]

Well said things stated there.
And i do understand that alot of people have lots of different reasons for abortions,and ill probably never understand alot of them.
But for my beliefs i belive that its wrong and immoral.

 

[BlackGarden]

Here's a more spikey issue for you to play with:

If a mother knows that her child will be born with a genetic disorder should she be allowed to abort the child on those grounds?

On the one hand, there is the issue that this is essentially selecting people with disabilities out of existance. On the other hand, can you really justify bringing a child into the world when you know they will have a disability that may significantly decrease their quality of life? Opinions anyone?

 

[destiny_star200]

I dont like i't how men don't have the right to keep the baby or abort the baby!
I think there should be a law made for that when a woman gets pregnant the father should be able to testify as to wheter he wants the child and the reasons for aborting/keeping.:thumbup:

 

[dong]

Here's a more spikey issue for you to play with:

If a mother knows that her child will be born with a genetic disorder should she be allowed to abort the child on those grounds?

On the one hand, there is the issue that this is essentially selecting people with disabilities out of existance. On the other hand, can you really justify bringing a child into the world when you know they will have a disability that may significantly decrease their quality of life? Opinions anyone?

Ah, the debate of eugenics. A newish one (discounting the National Socialist regime of post-Weimar republic Germany, of course ), but in the age where our understanding of the genetic basis of many congenital disorders is booming, this is a very relevant question, so snaps to you for bringing it up.

In regards to the actual moral problems that eugenics faces, I don't believe it completely applies here, for a number of reasons. One would have to look at the identity politics behind significant genetic disabilities, as well as the scope for such (I'm too tired to put my full argument down yet, since my next major paper is tomorrow morning!) The major caveat I think here is declaring something a disorder when in fact it is not medically so- but socially made thus. For example, comparing Down's Syndrome to something like autism.

It seems to me though that given the argument for, which includes the enormous burden (economic, individual and in terms of relationships) of raising such a child and the limited outcomes as well as a bunch of other social implications, one would think that the same would easily apply to legalising abortion in other circumstances as well. There is one major difference: the percieved disability adjustment must also be made for the child, as well as how their own perception might be affected. This can be a speculative process, which makes debate fraught with indecisive positions...like mine!

In short, I not sure. Yet.

 

[destiny_star200]

I always look forward to reading your posts Dong there always essay size and you get your point across brilliantly!
Way to go keep posting it enlightens me!

 

[dong]

Thanks I looked back over my post and I thought WTF???

It then occured to me that I wrote what I did because I was in part responding to a discussion about identity politics I had with a friend (not on this forum) as a response to a discussion of an article (http://reason.com/news/show/116604.html) cited here: http://airstrip.livejournal.com/259138.html.

If what I said earlier was a bit confusing hopefully that might help. Then again in my experience this usually confuses people worse...

 

[xboxundone]

I am against abortion. Even if it is known the person will ahve disability etc... they should still be born.

 

[speedpro50]

I am also Pro Life and feel abortion is the murdering of a child.

 

[Fuhrer]

I would consider myself to be a pro-lifer as well.

 

[Guaner]

I am also Pro life and I believe abortion is a cruel way to destroy life.

 

[kida]

This issue is divided between "a woman's right to choose" and "a child's right to live." Frankly, I think a child's right to live preempts a woman's right to choose. You can't have liberty or the pursuit of happiness if you're denied life itself.