Illegal immigration and The Romma Amensty Plan

[mikeromma]

Wanna see it IN LIVING COLOR?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u27DbjpG9Vo

The Romma Amnesty Plan will offer illegals two choices:

1. US citizenship with a Permeant Felony Conviction on their record,
ten years probation, restitution of taxes, criminal fines and all Federal, State and Local fees associated with their care through the legal system. With no chance to remove the felony conviction.

or

2. US Citizenship, full and complete. However illegals must go back to country or origin and start behind everyone else. There will be no jumping in front of the legal millions in line going through the legal way.

Remember Convicted Felons can't vote. I believe this is fair. Breaking the law must ALWAYS carry punishment.

The Constitution backs me on this one as far as if the illegal wants citizenship, but I don't want them to have ANY political power. No vote.

Anyway the 5th and 14th amendments related to the due process clause.
If you are a convicted felon you cannot vote!

 

[heyjude]

I think ten years probation is unrealistic. We have a hard time keeping up with the people on probation now. Making 12 to 20 million more that have to be continiously tracked is rediculous.

I would rather have any citizen involved enough to vote, and that includes convicted felons that are here. We want them to reform, but make it unlikely that they will become interested in the country because they can't vote. Why would anyone think that millions of aliens who cannot vote is a good thing. Thats going to help them assimilate, right?

 

[heyjude]

Let me guess. Romma wants the cheap labor, but is afraid that millions of Latinos will vote Democratic.

 

[SW85]

Fair? Fair would be to expel them, by force if necessary, and bar them even from eligibility for readmission.

I cannot comprehend why people equivocate so absurdly about issues as fundamental as national security, the rule of law, and the preservation of our quality of life.

 

[mikeromma]

Let me guess. Romma wants the cheap labor, but is afraid that millions of Latinos will vote Democratic.

I think ten years probation is unrealistic. We have a hard time keeping up with the people on probation now. Making 12 to 20 million more that have to be continiously tracked is rediculous. QUOTE]

I don't care if these illegals vote for a jackass or a fat retatrded elephant, but what bothers me, ultimatly, is that voting is an american right. I believe that those who cross and stay illegally should be punish.

My plan is about choice. the illegals have a choice. Here is the beauty, it is a voluntarily system. Meaning they have to pay for the probabtion, the back taxes, the fines and court costs.

You also have to remember that not all of the 12 to 20 million will take up this plan. But maybe half would. 6-10 million.

Besides that, The Romma Plan uses an already proven system. Criminals who go to probation go for a reason. Inorder to reenter society. What do you think will happend when you make illegals' citizenship dependent on their probabtion. You get millions of people complying whether they like it or not.

Kind of like the tax system EVERYBODY pays it. That is a voluntarily system, yet both us must agree that on a whole Macro to micro scale it works. The tax system is voluntarily

As for the illegal who will try and slip through the cracks? You are right here, you can't get everyone. But think of it like this.

According to the Romma Amnesty Plan, you would need millions and millions of people to enforce it -- Maybe someone who carries a badge and gun? BAM!
WE already have people to enforce our laws -- POLICE. Local, state, federal.

"I would rather have any citizen involved enough to vote, and that includes convicted felons that are here. We want them to reform, but make it unlikely that they will become interested in the country because they can't vote. Why would anyone think that millions of aliens who cannot vote is a good thing. Thats going to help them assimilate, right?"

You just answered your own point. Deterrence. That is why the majority of illegals will not take choice 1, instead they will go for choice 2.

 

[mikeromma]

Let me guess. Romma wants the cheap labor, but is afraid that millions of Latinos will vote Democratic.

Actually I am absolutely against cheap labor.
Currently only 7 percent of the US workforce is union, if that. We need more unions.
Let us also be realistic and fair. We also need a minium wage of 10-12 dollars an hour. 6.55 is a Goddamn joke. America is about tomorrow will be better because of what I do today.

A higher minuim wage would help pay bills in ways you don't even know yet.

Maybe its another couple dollars that a minority parent parent can AFFORD to spend on running water, a tooth brush and toothpaste.

Do you know how many little poor minority children DIE each year because they don't have access to basic tooth care prevention?

Or it could be the future single mother who can afford birth control, and puts off child birth until she is done with not just 7th grade or 8th grade but College.

On and on, the point is America can f*&king afford at the very least a 10-12 an hour minium wage.

 

[SW85]

No, a minimum wage will drive up inflation, especially if you legalize 10-20 million illegals who will then have the legal rights to demand it, and make that $10/hour as worthless as the $6/hour or so that people on minimum wage are currently getting. If you want to raise wages, reduce the labor supply by ending immigration.

What you're suggesting is a return to the days of the landed aristocracy, complete with serfs with no more rights than what their workmasters gave them. It's a slap to the face of the equality of condition that Tocqueville said would make a superpower out of this country.

Giving illegals a choice? That's ridiculous. They had their choice and they made the wrong one. Those Americans who suffer the depradations of illegal immigration get no choice in the matter at all, except maybe to move. Illegals deserve nought but a one-way ticket home with no second chance.

 

[heyjude]

IMO, the only way and the cheap, legal way to get rid of the illegals is to enforce the laws on the books right now. Arrest and put in jail, and fine the mothers who are hiring illegal nannies. And the people who are hiring them to mow their lawns. The factory owners and managers. The big box stores. And any one else who keeps them here and keeps them coming. And while we are at it, arrest the ministers who allow them sanctuary in their churches in direct violation of US law.

The illegals will go home and the wage that Americans work at will go up. Simple. The hard part is that the Democrats and the Republicans will not do it. And I may start a rebellion if one more of those stupid creeps accuses me of being a bigot. What part of illegal don't they understand?

 

[SW85]

The best way to get people to stop hiring illegals as nannies and lawn mowers is to get rid of the ludicrous level of IRS taxation and paperwork associated with the act of hiring nanies and lawn mowers. There is literally a nanny tax, and very few people can afford to pay it or have the resources to deal with the paperwork. The government actually encourages illegal immigration in that regard and it ought to be stopped.

 

[heyjude]

The best way to get people to stop hiring illegals as nannies and lawn mowers is to get rid of the ludicrous level of IRS taxation and paperwork associated with the act of hiring nanies and lawn mowers. There is literally a nanny tax, and very few people can afford to pay it or have the resources to deal with the paperwork. The government actually encourages illegal immigration in that regard and it ought to be stopped.

I beg to disagree with you. People have been hiring people to work under the table since the income tax passed. You don't have to hire an illegal. The reason for hiring illegals is larglely that they will work for a great deal less money. Do you want to pay $10 to get your lawn mowed, or $25? The American citizen will not mow your lawn for $10.

 

[SW85]

The point is that the cost of hiring an American (legally) is substantially higher precisely because it is subject to extensive bureaucratic regulation. An American's price may be $25 but the actual cost of hiring him as much larger because of the red tape.

Get rid of the red tape first, then crack down on the people who hire illegals as nannies and landscapers and the like. The penalties for hiring an illegal should be higher than the costs of hiring an American.

 

[heyjude]

It will be higher when they start getting fined $20,000 per illegal. What red tape are you talking about? SS, unemployment insurance? Do the American people want to get rid of those things? I don't think they do.

 

[SW85]

I just said at the end of the last page. The IRS levies huge taxes (literally called the "nanny tax") on the hiring of nannies, gardners, and the like. This is not SS or income or job taxes, it is a tax explicitly on the act of hiring and continuing to employ someone to work in your house. There is a volume of paperwork associated with that tax which incurs further costs.

It is much easier simply to hire a fellow hanging out in front of 7-11 then to put up with the cost, time, and energy of jumping through bureaucratic hoops to hire an American. If the government wants to deter the hiring of illegals (it presently doesn't), it's best to start by not deterring the hiring of Americans.