Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime

[Erudite_Hillbilly]

To begin with17 percent of those in US federal prison are illegal immigrants, so let's cut the BS that they all just want to come here to "do the jobs that Americans don't want". Illegals skip the line over those trying to play by the rules to come here legally, then they burden us with their costs. Depending on what part of the country one lives, the average per pupil cost in public schools is over $8,000, not counting "free" lunches and breakfasts, and not counting the "free" immunizations and healthcare. An illegal immigrant family earning maybe $18,000/year paying little or no taxes, but sending their kids to public schools costs taxpayers around $20,000 each year for an illegal alien family with just two children. Those with 3, 4, or 5 children.. you do the math. It's a HUGE financial burden for average taxpaying Americans.

The main problem in my opinion is with the employers of illegal aliens. Although my drivers license and passport have scanner data, social security cards don't even require a photo. Employers can knowingly hire illegals with a wink and a nod at their fraudulent identification. Why can't there be an immediate online database check of SS #'s with name, DOB and other pertinent data for verification of ID? As it stands now, employers save money on labor costs hiring illegal aliens over legal residents and citizens, while dumping the financial burden of their illegal alien employees on taxpayers. Unfortunately, all of the major Presidential candidates want to "solve" this problem by granting amnesty for these illegals who knowlingly violated our laws to come here illegally.

 

[Dr House]

Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime

Yes it is.

Depending on what part of the country one lives, the average per pupil cost in public schools is over $8,000, not counting "free" lunches and breakfasts, and not counting the "free" immunizations and healthcare. An illegal immigrant family earning maybe $18,000/year paying little or no taxes, but sending their kids to public schools costs taxpayers around $20,000 each year for an illegal alien family with just two children. Those with 3, 4, or 5 children.. you do the math. It's a HUGE financial burden for average taxpaying Americans.

So blame the government stealing money from your pocket to give to them. The welfare state has been bankrupt and inefficient from the beginning, having immigrants put a strain on it just made us realize it. The "war on poverty" has created an underclass of people who do nothing except just crank out kids to boost their welfare payments. Now the war on immigration is causing illegals to stick around rather than go back home with the money they've made, and crank out anchor babies so they can't be thrown out.

I say we back off, reform the welfare system so they (or our own countrymen for that matter) can't abuse it, and just deport the felons. There's no reason to throw them out. This is supposed to be the land of the free.

-Dr House

 

[Erudite_Hillbilly]

There's no reason to throw them out. This is supposed to be the land of the free.

That's right, land of the free, not land of the free lunch for illegals. Because that's what we have now.

I gave several solid reasons for "throwing them out", reasons which stand unrefuted. Let me guess, you're argument is that you "feel" they should stay, right?

 

[Libsmasher]

The correct phase is illegal alien.

 

[Dr House]

That's right, land of the free, not land of the free lunch for illegals. Because that's what we have now.

I gave several solid reasons for "throwing them out", reasons which stand unrefuted. Let me guess, you're argument is that you "feel" they should stay, right?

No, my argument is that they came here to work because economic conditions in their own country are crap. They're abusing the welfare state we got quite simply because we got one. So what we should be rid of is the welfare system, not the immigrants.

-Dr House

 

[ilikeboobs]

Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime

Yes it is.

I sincerely beg to differ. I've TWICE been the victim of an illegal using my social security number (two different mexicans) to get work here in the US. I've been hassled by the IRS for over 3 years now because, for some reason, the burden is on ME to prove that I'm not working in 3 places at once, yet filing my taxes for only 1 job.

Don't tell me it's not a victimless crime...

 

[Rhodri]

No, my argument is that they came here to work because economic conditions in their own country are crap. They're abusing the welfare state we got quite simply because we got one. So what we should be rid of is the welfare system, not the immigrants.

-Dr House

Certainly the welfare system can be improved, I don't advocate getting rid of it on the basis that illegals are benefiting from it. Start by not offering it up to illegals, only legal citizens. Unless this threads morphed into an 'abolish welfare' debate.

 

[Dr House]

Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime




I sincerely beg to differ. I've TWICE been the victim of an illegal using my social security number (two different mexicans) to get work here in the US. I've been hassled by the IRS for over 3 years now because, for some reason, the burden is on ME to prove that I'm not working in 3 places at once, yet filing my taxes for only 1 job.

Don't tell me it's not a victimless crime...

Ok, what they are forced/enabled to do to survive is criminal, but the mere act of passing through the gate isn't.

You know how we can stop them from getting below minimum-wage jobs, stealing SS numbers, getting welfare, etc?

We let them in legit. Open the borders. That simple.

If they're here as legal residents they're not under the radar. They can get their own SS and they have to abide by our laws and regulations, so the competitive advantage disappears.

As for the strain on the public services, those services were bankrupt to begin with. The answer is not to limit who gets the programs, it's to scrap them. The war on poverty failed long before illegals started taking advantage of it. It just created an underclass of shiftless bums that cranked out kids to boost their welfare checks.

-Dr house

 

[Rhodri]

Ok, what they are forced/enabled to do to survive is criminal, but the mere act of passing through the gate isn't.

You know how we can stop them from getting below minimum-wage jobs, stealing SS numbers, getting welfare, etc?

We let them in legit. Open the borders. That simple.

If they're here as legal residents they're not under the radar. They can get their own SS and they have to abide by our laws and regulations, so the competitive advantage disappears.

As for the strain on the public services, those services were bankrupt to begin with. The answer is not to limit who gets the programs, it's to scrap them. The war on poverty failed long before illegals started taking advantage of it. It just created an underclass of shiftless bums that cranked out kids to boost their welfare checks.

-Dr house

I thought this was your agenda...sure the welfare systems abused but fixing it is the answer. If the attraction to illegals were our National Park system I guess we should just torch the forests. The welfare system was designed as a safety net, it's certainly been taken advantage of..but, it's ours not theirs..so cut them off.

 

[Truth-Bringer]

No, my argument is that they came here to work because economic conditions in their own country are crap. They're abusing the welfare state we got quite simply because we got one. So what we should be rid of is the welfare system, not the immigrants.

True. The root issue is the welfare state. Eliminate that and you'd solve most problems. But I do think we should secure our border and enforce the immigration laws. There is a libertarian argument for doing so. Also, Ted Kennedy's liberalization of the immigration laws should be repealed and we should only allow in 300,000 per year.

 

[Libsmasher]

This is supposed to be the land of the free.

-Dr House

Yaaaaaaaa - Free medical care, free food stamps, free education, free housing, free legal services, free everything - if you can sneak across the border and have your anchor baby. Here, "free" means "paid for by US citizens".

 

[Dr House]

Freedom isn't free.

It's not supposed to be. I have said more than once that I don't agree with them abusing our public services.

They are, however, not here to do that. They are here to work. They use up our welfare because they realize they can once they're here.

-Dr House

 

[Libsmasher]

Freedom isn't free.

It's not supposed to be. I have said more than once that I don't agree with them abusing our public services.

They are, however, not here to do that. They are here to work. They use up our welfare because they realize they can once they're here.

-Dr House

You absolutely, up there in seattle, don't know what you're talking about. I just "love" to be lectured about illegal aliens by people in the northern US, for whom the illegal alien tsunami is pretty much a theoretical issue. They come here to scam the system. They drive up hospital bills and insurance premiums for everyone because they go to the emergency room for everything and don't pay. This practice has caused several Los Angeles trauma centers to close because they are bankrupt. Los angeles county found they had to teach illegal alien children spanish before they could teach them english, because they were illiterate in their own language. To this end, they imported teachers and schoolbooks from mexico. It goes on and on.

 

[Rhodri]

Lest we not forget..our government failed us...they are only doing what's natural.

 

[Dr House]

You absolutely, up there in seattle, don't know what you're talking about. I just "love" to be lectured about illegal aliens by people in the northern US, for whom the illegal alien tsunami is pretty much a theoretical issue. They come here to scam the system. They drive up hospital bills and insurance premiums for everyone because they go to the emergency room for everything and don't pay. This practice has caused several Los Angeles trauma centers to close because they are bankrupt. Los angeles county found they had to teach illegal alien children spanish before they could teach them english, because they were illiterate in their own language. To this end, they imported teachers and schoolbooks from mexico. It goes on and on.

Like I said, the problem is the public services. The solution is to cut em off from them.

-Dr House