Immigration: Legal vs. Illegal

[GenSeneca]

Can any of the Leftists explain why trying to stop terrorists, murderers, rapists, and other criminals, or people with contagious diseases... Basically explain why trying to stop anyone that poses a threat to public safety from entering the country is considered "racist" and "anti-immigrant"?

I can't believe the Left gets so much traction on this issue. I recently read an AP article where the Republican position was characterized as being "anti-immigration". Why? Because Republicans think people who want to enter our country should have to go through a screening process and follow our immigration laws. RACISTS!!!!

So Lefties... Do you really believe there should be NO screening process, that we shouldn't bother finding out if someone is a mass murderer or child rapist before letting them enter our country? Should we just let terrorists wearing suicide vests wander past the border and head to the nearest, and most densely populated, public gathering? Is that really the "Pro" immigration/Non-Racist position?

The fact that Republicans are seen as being on the wrong side of this issue is a testament to how totally incompetent the Republicans are in dealing with the issue and how incredibly skilled the Left is at spreading lies, distortions, and agitprop through the media wing of the Democrat party.

 

[Cruella]

Some Republicans, not all. We have a lot of them in Congress that are pro-illegal immigration. Bush didn't do squat, and especially after 9/11 when I thought for sure he would shut down that border. Instead, we have our schools, prisons, hospitals and welfare offices flooded with them, and no one seems to want to connect a big chunk of our social costs to them.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not the least bit anti-immigrant or anti-Mexican. I have lived in Calif. my whole life and we have always had a large Mexican population. But it has grown beyond our ability to afford them or employ them. A huge problem here that needs to be seriously addressed.

 

[Gipper]

This is not unlike many other issues. If one is against the expansion of the welfare state, one is racist. If one is against gay marriage, one is anti-gay. If one is against abortion, one is anti-woman.

The Left controls the discourse and the Left is anti-American and collectivist.

If someone said to Americans a few decades ago, open borders is not a problem, they would be roundly discredited. No American then, would agree with such an absurd position. Liberalism has so polluted the American mind that open borders and other national issues, Americans would never accept years ago, are now seen as acceptable and TOLERANT.

To expect the Rs to present an effective strategy against liberalism, is failing to see reality.

 

[Centrehalf]

So Lefties... Do you really believe there should be NO screening process, that we shouldn't bother finding out if someone is a mass murderer or child rapist before letting them enter our country? Should we just let terrorists wearing suicide vests wander past the border and head to the nearest, and most densely populated, public gathering? Is that really the "Pro" immigration/Non-Racist position?

Obviously many people in this country do feel this way, if they didn't they wouldn't say some of the stupid sh*t they say. I feel the same way you do, the only thing I would do differently is wait to catch them in the US instead of at the border.

Our Border Patrol does a pretty good job with the assets they've been given but the border is just too large, I don't think we could lock it down without a full-time military commitment. Relying on a screening process depends upon all potential immigrants respecting the process. I would rather get them through the IRS. Wait until someone gets a job and uses a social security number that isn't theirs and then have some men in black suits and sunglasses pay them a visit, give them an offer they can't refuse. That offer would be "you've been found guilty of fraud, your sentence is suspended as long as you don't re-enter the United States. We are going to keep all of your assets: money, house, car, they've all been seized. You are not entitled to any benefits such as social security, yada yada yada. Get out of our country and don't come back. If you do come back you will be imprisoned. You've been read your Mexanda Rights, now get the f**k out."

 

[GenSeneca]

Supporting an open border policy is insane... There is no rational defense of such a position. Asking Leftists to defend it is almost pointless, too often they simply scream "Racist!" and pretend they've offered a legitimate point that somehow validates the open border position.

I support Open Immigration, I think that would solve many of the problems we have with people who only cross our border illegally to escape whatever 3rd world socialist hell hole they're running away from... Just don't try to turn us into the same shat-hole you just left. Remove any immigration caps so that an unlimited number of people can legally apply to enter/live/work in the US but let them know ahead of time that our federal welfare state will not be available to them because we're phasing it out. The only people left who would still look to enter the US illegally would be people we don't want here, criminals and terrorist types. They represent a small fraction of a percent of those who cross our borders illegally so it should be much easier to find those needles once there's no more hay in the stack.

As for securing the border, it would take an army.... End the wars and all the other BS military actions we're undertaking around the world, pull our military out of the ME and the rest of the world, go back to a policy of non-interventionism, STOP nation building and end ALL foreign aid, let our navy and the CIA be the only ones who "patrol" outside of our borders while the rest of our military guards the continental US.

Gip, you're correct that the Left, through the MSM, seems to control the narrative. Luckily the American people are waking up to the racket and public trust in the MSM is dropping like a stone. I know the R's suck on ice when it comes to defending their positions but I'm hoping the Tea Party influence will finally give the Republican party a backbone, one that's built on the principles of individualism and an unmistakable rejection of collectivism.

Center, it's good to see you posting again! I would not want to let a terrorist enter the country and then wait for him to get a job before rounding him up.. I'd rather we stop him at the border, same for criminals. There are simply too many ways to eek out a living that don't require you to get a real job, so I don't think relying on the IRS would offer us any protection. I think people who wanted to immigrate would respect the process if they knew there were no limits on how many people could enter the US. When only X number of people are allowed to come in legally, but a much larger Y number want to come here, that's what leads to illegal border crossings. Give everyone a chance to do it legally and only the bad guys would still want to cross illegally.

 

[Gipper]

Supporting an open border policy is insane... There is no rational defense of such a position. Asking Leftists to defend it is almost pointless, too often they simply scream "Racist!" and pretend they've offered a legitimate point that somehow validates the open border position.

I support Open Immigration, I think that would solve many of the problems we have with people who only cross our border illegally to escape whatever 3rd world socialist hell hole they're running away from... Just don't try to turn us into the same shat-hole you just left. Remove any immigration caps so that an unlimited number of people can legally apply to enter/live/work in the US but let them know ahead of time that our federal welfare state will not be available to them because we're phasing it out. The only people left who would still look to enter the US illegally would be people we don't want here, criminals and terrorist types. They represent a small fraction of a percent of those who cross our borders illegally so it should be much easier to find those needles once there's no more hay in the stack.

As for securing the border, it would take an army.... End the wars and all the other BS military actions we're undertaking around the world, pull our military out of the ME and the rest of the world, go back to a policy of non-interventionism, STOP nation building and end ALL foreign aid, let our navy and the CIA be the only ones who "patrol" outside of our borders while the rest of our military guards the continental US.

Gip, you're correct that the Left, through the MSM, seems to control the narrative. Luckily the American people are waking up to the racket and public trust in the MSM is dropping like a stone. I know the R's suck on ice when it comes to defending their positions but I'm hoping the Tea Party influence will finally give the Republican party a backbone, one that's built on the principles of individualism and an unmistakable rejection of collectivism.

Center, it's good to see you posting again! I would not want to let a terrorist enter the country and then wait for him to get a job before rounding him up.. I'd rather we stop him at the border, same for criminals. There are simply too many ways to eek out a living that don't require you to get a real job, so I don't think relying on the IRS would offer us any protection. I think people who wanted to immigrate would respect the process if they knew there were no limits on how many people could enter the US. When only X number of people are allowed to come in legally, but a much larger Y number want to come here, that's what leads to illegal border crossings. Give everyone a chance to do it legally and only the bad guys would still want to cross illegally.

I agree whole heartily.

But regarding the TP, I fear the establishment Rs including Romney are working day and night to kill it. If Romney wins, I am betting the TP will be marginalized and ultimately destroyed by the progressive Rs, with help from the D Party (really commies) and their communications department (MSM).

If the TP is destroyed, I fear America as we have known it, is gone and never to return.

 

[Centrehalf]

But regarding the TP, I fear the establishment Rs including Romney are working day and night to kill it. If Romney wins, I am betting the TP will be marginalized and ultimately destroyed by the progressive Rs, with help from the D Party (really commies) and their communications department (MSM).

If the TP is destroyed, I fear America as we have known it, is gone and never to return.

I have the opposite view, it's the GOP that is in serious trouble, not the "Tea Party". The GOP has been transparent in their effort to squash the "Tea Party", everyone sees this and all they're doing is convincing many of the independents who lean GOP to stop leaning GOP. The fact that the media felt it necessary to create the "Tea Party" euphemism in the first place is encouraging, it means that there are a lot of people who are no longer willing to accept the collectivist garbage spewing out of both of the major parties and the MSM felt it necessary to try to subdue them. Those people are not going to just roll over and die or change their beliefs because RINOs don't like them. We're not in any danger of seeing the end of America or of the "Tea Party" this election cycle, we're watching the beginning.

 

[Gipper]

I have the opposite view, it's the GOP that is in serious trouble, not the "Tea Party". The GOP has been transparent in their effort to squash the "Tea Party", everyone sees this and all they're doing is convincing many of the independents who lean GOP to stop leaning GOP. The fact that the media felt it necessary to create the "Tea Party" euphemism in the first place is encouraging, it means that there are a lot of people who are no longer willing to accept the collectivist garbage spewing out of both of the major parties and the MSM felt it necessary to try to subdue them. Those people are not going to just roll over and die or change their beliefs because RINOs don't like them. We're not in any danger of seeing the end of America or of the "Tea Party" this election cycle, we're watching the beginning.

I would love to agree with you, but I can't. The R party is still controlled by progressives and moderates. These people hate that the TP has influence in the R party and they want it killed. It just so happens so does the Ds and their media.

And then this was reported during the convention...

Republican Establishment declares war on Tea Party at convention

• ELECTIONS 2012
• AUGUST 29, 2012
• BY: DUSTIN KOELLHOFFER
• Subscribe

At the opening day of the Republican National Convention to elect Gov. Mitt Romney as their presidential nominee, the moderates who have come to dominate the Republican Party put forth rule changes to marginalize conservatives. Responding to Democrat attacks attempting to paint conservatives of the Tea Party movement as extremists, Party leadership is attempting to nullify their influence in the electoral process. Rush Limbaugh, who refers to moderates as “liberals lite,” describes this as abject stupidity at a convention that began with the people united in their goal to replace President Obama and the Democrat controlled senate.
Mr. Limbaugh emphasizes that liberals of the Democrat Party are united to defeat Republicans while the Republican Party is split between moderates and conservatives. He warns that Republicans must not let this internal battle distract them until after Democrats are defeated in November. Conservatives of the Tea Party are incensed that this attack is being made against them within their own Party and talk has increased of a third Party which would split the Republican vote and result in increased Democrat victories. The Tea Party movement has been credited as being primarily responsible for Republican victories over the last three years.
http://www.examiner.com/article/republican-establishment-declares-war-on-tea-party-at-convention

I suspect much is going on behind the scenes that we do not know.