IRAN Has one last chance!

[steveox]

OK, i was wrong, Bush is a bigger moron than I thought.

Maybe not did anyone hear the news out of IRAQ? Its Finaly working now.Mr Bush might just withdraw troops now.He could be just setting up for IRAN now.

 

[PoliticalMessager]

The Gov't should Think before Attacking Iran.

Common misconception. We know Saddam had WMD's because he used them. And we did find some stockpiles of these weapons. What we didn't find were the nuclear weapons.

If We knew that Saddam had WMD why we did not find the
proof? Like the past few weeks Bush has been in the Middle East
twice, and he's over there now with his lying self. I am wondering
what does he have planned now? I also see that CondomLezza
and Gates is over there with him.

The world knows it just like I know it that Bush is up to
no good, and yet everyone is smooching Bush's ass. I
truly believe that it would be a mistake f***ing with Iran,
and if I am not mistaken we hare trying to invade Afgh.

My Son (who was stationed in Basra (Southern Iraq) told
me that our Government have already perpared forces to
fight in Afghanistan. Iraq and Afgh put together isn't the
size of Iran.

Iran has one last Chance? Hahahahaha Damn Our Government
is deep thinkers, and suppose that the United States was given
one last chance? Who in the hell are we to get someone the
last chance to prove us wrong again?

Bush isn't nothing but a damn front (put on) for the American
people, and the more we allow our government to screw us
the more we are going to get screwed. Since there is a bunch
of Bush worshippers does any of you know of any Bush kin
fighting in the Middle East?

 

[PoliticalMessager]

Steve, Visit Some Of The Middle East News sites.

Maybe not did anyone hear the news out of IRAQ? Its Finaly working now.Mr Bush might just withdraw troops now.He could be just setting up for IRAN now.

Steve, The Middle East (including Iraq,Iran) has online newspaper
sites to visit, but don't go there with your mind set that its a bunch
of propagenda bs. You are always reading what American newspapers
want you to know. So why not read what or how the other side feel
about the U.S Gov't.

I am sure that you have heard what papers are in the Midlle East
if not say so, and in my next post I will list them for you.
However you are correct about Bush's plan to move from one
middle east country to the next.

 

[steveox]

Steve, The Middle East (including Iraq,Iran) has online newspaper
sites to visit, but don't go there with your mind set that its a bunch
of propagenda bs. You are always reading what American newspapers
want you to know. So why not read what or how the other side feel
about the U.S Gov't.

I am sure that you have heard what papers are in the Midlle East
if not say so, and in my next post I will list them for you.
However you are correct about Bush's plan to move from one
middle east country to the next.

Well Isnt what the Soviets did in the 50s & 60s? What the Soviets did was punish europe for allowing the Nazis to invade RUSSIA! So the Soviet Union took 1/3 of Europe. Now the Arabs Attacked america. So were taking Arabia land away from them.Its Punishment.Just like what the Jews are doing in israel. Israel blew up arabic homes as called collective punishment. All the arabs have to do is behave themselves and they wont have their homes and their land taking away from em.I got news for those Palentines. Isreal is gonna take gaza back away from them. You watch this is just waiting to happen. Youll gonna see Israel roll their tanks right back into gaza and invade them.And If hezbollah doesnt get out of Jordan Israel is gonna Invade Jordan.

 

[Irishone21]

We need Iran as an ally.

 

[PoliticalMessager]

Well Isnt what the Soviets did in the 50s & 60s? What the Soviets did was punish europe for allowing the Nazis to invade RUSSIA! So the Soviet Union took 1/3 of Europe. Now the Arabs Attacked america. So were taking Arabia land away from them.Its Punishment.Just like what the Jews are doing in israel. Israel blew up arabic homes as called collective punishment. All the arabs have to do is behave themselves and they wont have their homes and their land taking away from em.I got news for those Palentines. Isreal is gonna take gaza back away from them. You watch this is just waiting to happen. Youll gonna see Israel roll their tanks right back into gaza and invade them.And If hezbollah doesnt get out of Jordan Israel is gonna Invade Jordan.

Steve, We are not Russia, and this is 2007 not the 1960s.
Time has changed along with the people. Sure the Arabs
is attacking America, and I would not call it a direct attack
but a message that we don't seem to understand.

To me Isreal is attacking Gaza,Jerusalem and Tele-Aviv with
the support of the US Gov't. These three places I just named
is a mixture of Jews and Arabs, and both sides is at conflict
over ownship of the land. Did you know that a wall has been
built in Jerusalem to divide the Jews from the Arabs? If the
wall isn't standing in Jerusalem its in one of the other two
cities I named.

If I am wrong I will research the information, and will post
the correct information. Plus the url for the non-believers.

 

[steveox]

I Favor Israel attacking arabs and attacking its neighbors to show strengh. Like Ronald Reagan said,,"You must show your strengh instead your weakness."

 

[9sublime]

Officially Steve, your government is not taking any land away from the arab nations. But lets not beat around the bush, it seems very much like occupation to me. Thankfully British troops are on the way out.

 

[BigRob]

I Favor Israel attacking arabs and attacking its neighbors to show strengh. Like Ronald Reagan said,,"You must show your strengh instead your weakness."

Israel will never attack Iran, here is why:

1) Israel would have to fly over Iraqi airspace. They would have to do this because they lack any navy power to make the hits, and they do not have the ability to refuel in midair.

2) In order to fly over Iraqi airspace, they must get the permission of the Iraqi government (the US). They will never get this permission because if the US wants Iran hit, they are going to do it themselves.

3) I have posted before why airstrikes are a bad idea to begin with and I stand by those points.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

They will never get this permission because if the US wants Iran hit, they are going to do it themselves.

I would like to see you elaborate on this a bit, because I'm not necessarily convinced. There are a number of incidents where Israel has done the "dirty work" that the U.S. wanted to do but couldn't for political reasons. The one that comes to mind was the raid on Saddam's nuclear reactor in 1980.

 

[BigRob]

I would like to see you elaborate on this a bit, because I'm not necessarily convinced. There are a number of incidents where Israel has done the "dirty work" that the U.S. wanted to do but couldn't for political reasons. The one that comes to mind was the raid on Saddam's nuclear reactor in 1980.

Yes, they went through northern Iraq to do this hit. Israel being on the border with Iraq meant that they simply had to fly into Iraq to do this hit. If you study that hit, you will see they asked Jordan for permission to go through the South, the shorter route, but they were denied. Obviously they are not going to ask permission from Saddam to hit a reactor in Iraq.

Since Israel cannot refuel midair, and have no aircraft carriers etc, the only way they would be able to get their planes to Iran to carry out these hits would be to fly over northern Iraq. They will never get the permission to do this, and if they go against the US wishes here, the US is not going to be pleased.

In the case of Iran, they must fly over Iraq however, and the implications that this has for the US are too great to allow Israel to do this. Israel has to much to lose, in the form of US support etc.., to go against the US wishes in this regard. If the US wants this hit to take place, they are going to want to do it themselves, to make sure they get all the targets that they want to get (which poses even more problems as I have posted elsewhere).

Also, in the Arab world, the US will take the blame for this hit no matter who does it. Therefore, it makes no sense to let Israel "do the dirty work" because it will be blamed on the US no matter what.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

Yes, they went through northern Iraq to do this hit. Israel being on the border with Iraq meant that they simply had to fly into Iraq to do this hit. If you study that hit, you will see they asked Jordan for permission to go through the South, the shorter route, but they were denied. Obviously they are not going to ask permission from Saddam to hit a reactor in Iraq.

Since Israel cannot refuel midair, and have no aircraft carriers etc, the only way they would be able to get their planes to Iran to carry out these hits would be to fly over northern Iraq. They will never get the permission to do this, and if they go against the US wishes here, the US is not going to be pleased.

In the case of Iran, they must fly over Iraq however, and the implications that this has for the US are too great to allow Israel to do this. Israel has to much to lose, in the form of US support etc.., to go against the US wishes in this regard. If the US wants this hit to take place, they are going to want to do it themselves, to make sure they get all the targets that they want to get (which poses even more problems as I have posted elsewhere).

This is what I don't understand -- why wouldn't the U.S. be pleased if Israel struck Iran? Just as with the Osirak Reactor in 1980, the U.S. could not politically take such aggressive action but secretly we were grateful to Israel for doing it. In fact after the Gulf War, DEFSEC Cheney sent a letter to Israel thanking them for removing Saddam's nuclear capabilities which allowed the U.S. to have a much easier time with Saddam's forces.

Also, in the Arab world, the US will take the blame for this hit no matter who does it. Therefore, it makes no sense to let Israel "do the dirty work" because it will be blamed on the US no matter what.

Everything that goes wrong in the Arab world is blamed on the Big Satan (U.S.) and Little Satan (Israel) so I don't really thank that's such a great concern. If Iran is truly a threat to the U.S. but we cannot pull the trigger for political concerns (as with the American media, liberals, UN, Germany, France, Britain, Australia, etc.) then I still believe we would stand to benefit from an Israeli strike against Iran militarily without suffering the global political backlash.

 

[steveox]

Rob, Israel has the 2nd best air force next to the USAF. They can Really level up with the americans. Theyre even Better than Russias Airforce. Israel can defend themselves if they have the right general. So dont underestimate Israels military. FYI Israel has 300 Nukes. And they can take out IRAN. But Bush needs to find away to ask Israels PM to Fight with the Americans if they go to war against IRAN.

 

[BigRob]

Just as with the Osirak Reactor in 1980, the U.S. could not politically take such aggressive action but secretly we were grateful to Israel for doing it.

Everything that goes wrong in the Arab world is blamed on the Big Satan (U.S.) and Little Satan (Israel) so I don't really thank that's such a great concern. If Iran is truly a threat to the U.S. but we cannot pull the trigger for political concerns (as with the American media, liberals, UN, Germany, France, Britain, Australia, etc.) then I still believe we would stand to benefit from an Israeli strike against Iran militarily without suffering the global political backlash.

Contrary to prevalent mythology, there is no evidence that Israel's destruction of Osirak delayed Iraq's nuclear weapons program. The attack may actually have accelerated it.

Osirak is not applicable to Iran anyway, since an air strike on a single reactor is not a model for the comprehensive campaign that would be required to deal, even unsatisfactorily, with the extensive, concealed and protected program that Iran is probably developing. As the United States crafts non-proliferation policy, it should soberly consider the actual effect of the Osirak attack and the limitations of even stronger air action.

In contrast to a ground war, air power has the allure of quick, clean, decisive action without messy entanglement. Smash today, gone tomorrow. Iraq's nuclear program demonstrates how unsuccessful air strikes can be even when undertaken on a massive scale. Recall the surprising discoveries after the Iraq War. In 1991 coalition air forces destroyed the known nuclear installations in Iraq, but when UN inspectors went into the country after the war, they unearthed a huge infrastructure for nuclear weapons development that had been completely unknown to Western intelligence before the war.


Obliterating the Osirak reactor did not put the brakes on Saddam's nuclear weapons program because the reactor that was destroyed could not have produced a bomb on its own and was not even necessary for producing a bomb. Nine years after Israel's attack on Osirak, Iraq was very close to producing a nuclear weapon. Had Saddam been smart enough in 1990 to wait a year longer, he might have been able to have a nuclear weapon in his holster when he invaded Kuwait.

There are two methods for developing fissionable material for a nuclear weapon. One is to reprocess spent fuel from a nuclear reactor like Osirak into fissionable plutonium. In order to reprocess the fuel from Osirak on a significant scale, the Iraqis would have needed to construct a separate plutonium reprocessing plant. Many laymen commonly assume the effectiveness of the Israeli strike because they mistakenly believe that a nuclear reactor alone can produce explosive material for a bomb. Iraq had made no move toward building the necessary reprocessing facility at the time the Israelis struck the reactor. Without such a separate plant, the destruction of the reactor was practically superfluous.


As for why the US would be bothered by this, there are many reasons.

1) In a battle against extremism, why go out of the way to create even more?

2) Any strikes on Iran will destroy all wiggle room that the USA has to pursue other options. Iran, internally, is pretty divided actually, and support for the President is pretty low, an internal rebellion is possible, or the election of a new leader, but all of those options go away the minute Israel attacks.

3) Israel admits they are unable to take out all of the targets (except for the usual saber rattling), so why would the US want an attack to take place to take option off the table for the USA, and not even destroy or get many of the targets?

4) Any airstrike will most likely have limited success if any real success at all. So, again, the USA will never allow these hits to take place. Also, we know that hits on Iran will unite the Iranians against Israel and the US and lose any chance of a new leader as I said before. It also gives Ahmadinejad the ammunition he needs to then put the nuclear program on the fast tract and consolidate his power, something we do not want him to be able to do.

5) The implications this strike would have on US forces in Iraq are massive. Iran can make or break Iraq right now, and this would guarantee that they break it, resulting in a lot more US deaths in the area, and further destabilizing the region.

 

[BigRob]

Rob, Israel has the 2nd best air force next to the USAF. They can Really level up with the americans. Theyre even Better than Russias Airforce. Israel can defend themselves if they have the right general. So dont underestimate Israels military. FYI Israel has 300 Nukes. And they can take out IRAN. But Bush needs to find away to ask Israels PM to Fight with the Americans if they go to war against IRAN.

Israel does, but in order to carry out an effective airstrikes they would need massive amounts of plane, which they have to get there, but not to get back. They lack any real mid-air refueling ability, and would be unable to get as many planes that are needed to Iran to do the strikes (which would have many other implications as I posted above). Iran has Mig-29's that can match up with any other fighter in the air. However, their training is not as good, but chasing planes making a run for it and low on gas, it would be a massacre. Israel is not about to sent that many planes and pilots on a kamakazie run that potentially would have no real effect what-so-ever.

Also, Israel's nuclear supply is not relevant here, because they are not going to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike against Iran, which would also, really accomplish nothing.