Is This Who We Really Are?

I would hope so, its the employer plan. His $4k is still his share of the bill after his insurance. He was also made to jump through a bunch of different referrals, and consultations and then had to wait until the insurance company decided they should allow the surgery or face a lawsuit.

This was what I was expecting you to say and the reason I asked the question. So, it turns out that he did not get to pick his policy at all; his employer picked it for him. Perhaps we would all have better policies if we all picked them and then rewarded good companies.
He is lucky to even get coverage. He has a bad back and shoulder from previous injuries working for decades on fishing boats and the pipeline.
He has known he needed shoulder surgery for a year. It took that long to get approval.

He certainly is not a rich man. That is the problem in rural Alaska. Wages are generally higher because of various COLA allowances due to the often unimaginable costs of vital goods. So we generally dont qualify for such programs. But are living nearly paycheck to paycheck. An planned expense of a few thousand dollars makes for potentially lean and cold times.


I hope all works out well for him. But as we can all see every action has consequences and when the gov encouraged people to get insurance primarily from their employers there were consequences.
 
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I doubt we will hear anything about HR 2520 or S. 1099. They were both introduced in May, and to date, no one has cared enough to take a look. Most likely because there is no chance Democrats allow a Republican bill to be the "healthcare reform."

I suspect it goes both ways.

Even though this present proposal is a socialist piece of malice there are no doubt republicans who would be glad to vote for it if their side got the political leverage. They are all statists. It is kind of like virtually all of congress is a flock of penguins (because birds of a feather...) - some are black and white but some are white and black.
 
I doubt we will hear anything about HR 2520 or S. 1099. They were both introduced in May, and to date, no one has cared enough to take a look. Most likely because there is no chance Democrats allow a Republican bill to be the "healthcare reform."

If there is no chance that the Democrats will allow a Republican bill to become healthcare reform, and there is no chance that the Republicans will allow a Democrat bill to do so, then what are the chances of health care reform of any kind?
 
If there is no chance that the Democrats will allow a Republican bill to become healthcare reform, and there is no chance that the Republicans will allow a Democrat bill to do so, then what are the chances of health care reform of any kind?

The pubs dont have the votes to stop it.
 
DR. WHO SAID: I am being consistent. The constitution gives the gov the power to stop people from harming each other. It does not give gov the power to actually help in this way.

To which I replied: If that was true then why would we have federal funded agencies such as: HUD, HHS, Soc.Sec.A., VA, Medicare, Medicaid, CIA, FBI, etc., etc., etc.,

Some of those programs are clearly constitutionally authorized, like the FBI whose purpose is to protect the rights of citizens.

What you originally stated: Even the poorest of Americans are swimming in material wealth. Middle class America even more so. The vast vast majority of middle class Americans own so much crap that if they just did not buy it they could easily save money.


AND THEN YOU MODIFIED IT TO THIS> I said even the poorest Americans are swimming in wealth and you said that was quicksand. But the National census says:

Let's look at housing. Forty-one percent of the poor actually own their own homes, typically a three-bedroom house with one-and-one-half baths. It is in good repair, and has a garage or carport, and a porch or patio. The median value of these homes is $65,000, which is 70 percent of the median value of all American homes.

Americans, poor and non-poor, live in large and spacious housing. Only 2 percent of America's poor are overcrowded (defined as living with more than 1.5 persons per room). On average, America's poor have 440 square feet of living space per person. This is more than the average citizen in Paris, Berlin, and London; nearly three times the average in the capitals of such nations as Poland and Mexico; and nearly seven times greater than the average in poor nations such as China and India.

Modern conveniences are commonplace-and some nearly ubiquitous-among America's poor. About 70 percent of poor households own a car or truck, and more than a quarter own two or more cars. Two-thirds of the poor have air conditioning, and a similar number have microwaves. Nearly half of all poor households own two or more color television sets. Almost three-quarters of the poor now have VCRs.

Then there is the matter of hunger. Advocates tell us that 35 million Americans live in its grip. But government surveys don't bear this out.

Asked if they have enough food to eat, 96 percent of Americans answer yes.

The surveys also show that the diets of the poor and those of the middle class have a similar nutritional content. Poor children and middle-class children consume almost identical amounts of protein, vitamins, and minerals, in most cases well above recommended norms.

In truly poor countries, malnutrition keeps children from growing. The World Health Organization finds that 39 percent of children in Africa, and 47 percent of those in Asia, are stunted. Only 2.7 percent of poor American children fall below this low-height threshold-the normal level one would expect, given ordinary genetic variation.

The poor do, however, suffer from one major nutrition-related health problem: obesity.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_20_51/ai_56220678/

Still do not agree with your statements even when you try to modify/change/alter them to something else. Poor/middle class Americans don't save, they don't have anything left after paying the basic necessities: rent/housing, utilities, food, fuel for transportation and for all of your stats {sources unknown and probably from some unreliable poll} just isn't the reality of what is happening in our AMERICA.

But your opinion is as oblivious as the screwed up statement from Mr. Brown and his asinine statement about the 'poor people driving out of harms way in the poorest sections of New Orleans and the rest of the Gulf Coast area'...someone forgot to mention to that 'NUT JOB' just how many of those poor people didn't own a vehicle and had to rely on public transportation for getting the basics: food, doctor appointments, etc., etc., etc.,

Until they were showing up: on top of their roofs, and at the stadium in mass, on those overpasses, wading around in those flooded streets...on the nightly news. Then it was...OOPS, I guess we do have a problem, where did all of those poor people come from :confused:

BTW, your very welcome for all of the 'LTC payer' information that you DID NOT COMMENT ON.
 
Still do not agree with your statements even when you try to modify/change/alter them to something else. Poor/middle class Americans don't save, they don't have anything left after paying the basic necessities: rent/housing, utilities, food, fuel for transportation and for all of your stats {sources unknown and probably from some unreliable poll} just isn't the reality of what is happening in our AMERICA.

I don't see any significant modification there.

the poor, according the the national census have lots of luxuries:

"more than a quarter own two or more cars. Two-thirds of the poor have air conditioning, and a similar number have microwaves. Nearly half of all poor households own two or more color television sets. Almost three-quarters of the poor now have VCRs."

Which is in direct contradiction to your statement that they have nothing left after paying basic necessities. What they need to do is skip the vcr's (which are just representative of all luxuries) and buy catastropic health insurance (which is the cheapest, most affordable, and only needed health insurance but will be banned under the Obama plan).

BTW, your very welcome for all of the 'LTC payer' information that you DID NOT COMMENT ON.

That was because while you proved very nicely that you were familiar with the red tape you did not show that people were being dropped out on the street in any harmful way. No harm - no foul. You even stated that they were being placed out of the LTC presumably into some other placement.

I still find the original article to be completely fishy. I highly doubt that (as much as I mistrust our gov) our gov would allow any nursing home type facility to discharge a patient who needs some sort of care or he would come to harm to actually discharge that person and not make some provision for his ongoing care. We have problems in our system but that just does not sound right. And as I said before; if it really is happening then it is an example of government failure to police the situation. If they are failing so miserably to do what they are supposed to do then they should not be entrusted to do even more that they are not supposed to do.
 
No, they don't, but if they can keep the debate going until after the next election, they just might. Do you suppose that is the strategy?


Could be. And if either side has better arguments let that side win.

You would not want a decision as important as this to be rushed, would you?
 
If there is no chance that the Democrats will allow a Republican bill to become healthcare reform, and there is no chance that the Republicans will allow a Democrat bill to do so, then what are the chances of health care reform of any kind?

difference is, Americans voted in Dems, not republicans...and I suspect for a reason.
 
difference is, Americans voted in Dems, not republicans...and I suspect for a reason.

Yep, They hated Bush. Largely due to manufactured propaganda in the MSM and a failure on Bushes part to defend himself. But the dems have no mandate the margin that elected P.Obama was very small. Americans know that there is no mandate to usher in this kind of health care reform and a majority reject it. It may be the undoing of P. Obama's admin.
 
Yep, They hated Bush. Largely due to manufactured propaganda in the MSM and a failure on Bushes part to defend himself. But the dems have no mandate the margin that elected P.Obama was very small. Americans know that there is no mandate to usher in this kind of health care reform and a majority reject it. It may be the undoing of P. Obama's admin.

well he got more then 50% of the vote...good start over Bush boy who never did that. Hell he could not even get more votes then then the guy he beat first time,,,,he claimed a mandate.....
 
Could be. And if either side has better arguments let that side win.

You would not want a decision as important as this to be rushed, would you?

No, it should neither be rushed, nor relegated to the back burner for another decade, nor should obfuscation and outright lying be used to derail any attempt to at reasonable debate.
 
I don't see any significant modification there.

the poor, according the the national census have lots of luxuries:

"more than a quarter own two or more cars. Two-thirds of the poor have air conditioning, and a similar number have microwaves. Nearly half of all poor households own two or more color television sets. Almost three-quarters of the poor now have VCRs."
So you are quantifying the luxury lifestyle of the 'poor' according to the misc. conveniences that they OWN {as if that proves that they spend money foolishly}. What an absolutely absurd assumption!!! That would only lead me to believe that you have never - ever wandered into the whelm of 'garage sales', 'thrift stores', 'pawn shops' or the world of 'hand-me-downs'. To have formed such an elitist view point from your pedestal that the 'poor' are not REALLY POOR because they own: microwaves, VCR, TVs, have A/C and a couple of cars that may or may not run. ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR EVER LOVEN MIND???
Which is in direct contradiction to your statement that they have nothing left after paying basic necessities. What they need to do is skip the vcr's (which are just representative of all luxuries) and buy catastropic health insurance (which is the cheapest, most affordable, and only needed health insurance but will be banned under the Obama plan).
Well that makes my 'assumptions' about the GOP and the mindset of the party above the people and pearly white that are clueless about the rest of AMERICA and just how out of touch with reality the GOP is and will remain...CLUELESS
That was because while you proved very nicely that you were familiar with the red tape you did not show that people were being dropped out on the street in any harmful way. No harm - no foul. You even stated that they were being placed out of the LTC presumably into some other placement.
Oh, but they do get placed out of the facility and the replacement does happen 'IF' they can find another facility that is 'NON PROFIT' that needs more indigent head counts to receive more money...but you over looked quite a bit and I suggested that you do your own research and as evidently you are unable to you just skim read the responses ;)
I still find the original article to be completely fishy. I highly doubt that (as much as I mistrust our gov) our gov would allow any nursing home type facility to discharge a patient who needs some sort of care or he would come to harm to actually discharge that person and not make some provision for his ongoing care. We have problems in our system but that just does not sound right. And as I said before; if it really is happening then it is an example of government failure to police the situation. If they are failing so miserably to do what they are supposed to do then they should not be entrusted to do even more that they are not supposed to do.
That explains the bases for your thoughts that every hospital and every nursing home has to provide care...bottom lines are just that - bottom lines. Not all hospitals are 'PUBLIC ACCESS' hospitals, not all LTC facilities are 'NON PROFIT' bases nursing homes either. I'm beginning to think that GOP bubble that you dwell in has desensitized you to the reality of LIFE!
 
Originally Posted by Dr.Who
The pubs dont have the votes to stop it.

No, they don't, but if they can keep the debate going until after the next election, they just might. Do you suppose that is the strategy?

So in the desperation of the unavoidable the GOP will stoop to any means to derail the health care reform by the tried and true measures that have worked for them in the past!

Want to go to war; just keep feeding that WMD's idea into the daily media speaking head moments from the people told to go forth and rant; Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell, Rumsfeld, VP Cheney...people didn't ask about the PROOF they were to busy planning a reaction for the CODE RED ALERTS that the dooms day preacher were heralding...'IT'S COMING, AND ONLY G.W.B. CAN SAVE US FROM THE DISASTOR"

Well that distraction worked but do not expect that method to work this time...the American Public are wiser and onto the smear techniques that the GOP utilizes :D
 
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Is this who we really are?

The woman was told that her neighbors should help pay for her needs and then her neighbors applauded. Sounds like they volunteered.
 
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