Never mind Iraq will there be a civil war in America

[Paula62]

I post and lurk on more than a few political forums, both conservative and liberal, republican and democrat.
Over the last 3 years i've noticed something. At the conservative forums, the posters don't seem to differentiate between political foes and real enemies of our country. I can't quite figure out if the people who think Hillary Clinton is as bad as OBL are serious or just ranting, Iwould tend to think ranting, except for the venom in their comments....and it's not just opposing politicians....it seems to be anybody who disagrees even slightly with the conservative talking points.

Before this starts to read like republican bash.....I've seen the liberals do this too....but not nearly as much nor does it seem the norm that the liberals walk in lockstep as much as the conservatives do.

A good example of the mindset i'm referring to is the recent defeat in CT of Joe Liberman. Since election 2000
I've never seen a post on a conservative forum praise him....I have seen him called traitor and all kinds of other vile names, but since his defeat in the primary...all of a sudden the republicans not only love him but are actually endorsing him....talk about bizarro world to the nines.

I really think if Ted Kennedy said we should abolish all taxes, and all social programs and go to war with Iran at once, the conservatives would change their positions and come up with reasons why that was un American and why he was a traitor.

Anyway.....my point.....and i do have one......is how can you unite people when a large part of one side can't be compromised with, and seems purely unable to accept any responsibilty for anything.......a republican gets busted taking bribes....well the democrats do it, "Clinton lied to the American people". Does the fact that no democrat has been perfect make it ok to totally disregard all the rules.

The hypocrosy is mind numbing, and the disconnect is as well.

Where's the outrage? LOL

 

[kokotai]

I can understand how you feel. I personally think they should get rid of the parties because all they do is seperate everyone anyway. No one is perfect and no one is willing to admit that they aren't outloud. It is frustrating but even more so is the fact that the average American is complacent.

 

[palefrost]

I post and lurk on more than a few political forums, both conservative and liberal, republican and democrat.
Over the last 3 years i've noticed something. At the conservative forums, the posters don't seem to differentiate between political foes and real enemies of our country. I can't quite figure out if the people who think Hillary Clinton is as bad as OBL are serious or just ranting, Iwould tend to think ranting, except for the venom in their comments....and it's not just opposing politicians....it seems to be anybody who disagrees even slightly with the conservative talking points.

Before this starts to read like republican bash.....I've seen the liberals do this too....but not nearly as much nor does it seem the norm that the liberals walk in lockstep as much as the conservatives do.

A good example of the mindset i'm referring to is the recent defeat in CT of Joe Liberman. Since election 2000
I've never seen a post on a conservative forum praise him....I have seen him called traitor and all kinds of other vile names, but since his defeat in the primary...all of a sudden the republicans not only love him but are actually endorsing him....talk about bizarro world to the nines.

I really think if Ted Kennedy said we should abolish all taxes, and all social programs and go to war with Iran at once, the conservatives would change their positions and come up with reasons why that was un American and why he was a traitor.

Anyway.....my point.....and i do have one......is how can you unite people when a large part of one side can't be compromised with, and seems purely unable to accept any responsibilty for anything.......a republican gets busted taking bribes....well the democrats do it, "Clinton lied to the American people". Does the fact that no democrat has been perfect make it ok to totally disregard all the rules.

The hypocrosy is mind numbing, and the disconnect is as well.

Where's the outrage? LOL

Im outraged. Alot of people are outraged. The media isn't reporting that. the politicians dont want to hear it because lets face it politicians are opportunists out to make a dollar. they remind me of televangelists. What can we do though? What is better then what we have?
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[Paula62]

Im outraged. Alot of people are outraged. The media isn't reporting that. the politicians dont want to hear it because lets face it politicians are opportunists out to make a dollar. they remind me of televangelists. What can we do though? What is better then what we have?
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

i agree the media has mostly been absent. i was watching one of the shout shows recently on cable ( it was while i was on vacation, as i refuse to get cable at home)
the thing that struck me was how uncritical the show host was....any body could claim anything they wanted and it seemed to be accepted as proven fact. that's the lack of accoutablility i was talking about

 

[Brandon]

It's rather funny that the parties seem to act as if they are everything the other party isn't. The only main difference is social and morality issues.

Either way they both get into office and spend and spend and spend (do you see where this is going?).

 

[sarah]

The parties don't want to be seen as having anything in common with each other, even though they do.

 

[dong]

I'd like to see a discussion of polarisation of the public, and where the long tail of the minority has gone since the last US election. The polarisation issue seems to me central to the notion of a civil war, and perhaps although it is a blatant misconstrusion of the actual situation, the misapprehension of politics itself may cause people to rumor themselves into a civil war of sorts.

I also vaguely entertain the notion of the extreme left taking unilateral action by revolution in Australia, although this is more for my personal amusement. However, the precursors that I defined as criteria have largely come true: lasting dissatisfaction with a leader that continuously screws us over, a unification of previously ineffectual and isolated cells of activists, an increasingly stagnant and now farcical decline of democracy and the perception of a generally surly but apathetic public. Is there anything like this being reflected in the US?

 

[Agaric]

I agree that the US has become extremely divided, especially since the time of Reagan. However, I don't think that we're on the brink or even on the road to civil war ourselves. Civil wars break out over severe ideological or societal differences (ie: religious factioning). We live in a service economy, so there are no huge differences of background that there once were like farmer vs. landed aristocracy. Furthermore, although there is a significant gap between rich and poor, I don't think there's going to be a storming of the Bastille any time soon. We're certainly pissed at each other and grumble our heads off, but I sincerely doubt that violence would erupt on a large scale. Our media is so sensationalized that any act of violence of say a Republican against a Democrat (who openly admitted that was the motivation) would be written off and most likely interpreted as the work of a nutjob. We're on the road to serious domestic problems and division, but not civil war.

 

[l99999us]

I don't see much of a threat of a civil war per say (though unfortunatly a Facist state could happen though probably not likely). I think that the numbers of people on the left that would entertain the idea of revolution (ie communists, anarchists) is just so small the wouldn't have much of an effect.

I definitly see a whole lot of polarization as well as many of the things you have mentioned. Another aspect i see is a general feeling of distrust of the rule of law(torture, warentless spying, suspending habous corpus) for much of the leadership as well as a lot of inflammatory retoric (ie Democrats are traitors etc).

Personally i am hoping that the disatisfaction with Bush is strong enough that the democrats can get back congress. I think it is the best bet to preserve the democratic instiutions of our country.

I'd like to see a discussion of polarisation of the public, and where the long tail of the minority has gone since the last US election. The polarisation issue seems to me central to the notion of a civil war, and perhaps although it is a blatant misconstrusion of the actual situation, the misapprehension of politics itself may cause people to rumor themselves into a civil war of sorts.

I also vaguely entertain the notion of the extreme left taking unilateral action by revolution in Australia, although this is more for my personal amusement. However, the precursors that I defined as criteria have largely come true: lasting dissatisfaction with a leader that continuously screws us over, a unification of previously ineffectual and isolated cells of activists, an increasingly stagnant and now farcical decline of democracy and the perception of a generally surly but apathetic public. Is there anything like this being reflected in the US?

 

[Martyr]

I really think if Ted Kennedy said we should abolish all taxes, and all social programs and go to war with Iran at once, the conservatives would change their positions and come up with reasons why that was un American and why he was a traitor.

Americans are too lazy/stupid/ignorant to engage in civil war. Unless it was a race war.

 

[lizakollman]

The parties don't want to be seen as having anything in common with each other, even though they do.

the worst thing is that they were supposed to mean something. the parties i mean. they were supposed to each represent different ideals and values, and now all it is is a bunch of people try to please the most people so they can get ahold of the most money.

 

[karenlyn]

I think civil war might be putting it a bit strongly, but I think Paula is making a good point here. I don't like to bash anybody, Republicans included, but... when a group of people is as stiff and immobile as this, how can change for the good ever happen? They won't allow compromise. I, for one, have been outraged for a long time.

And no, we don't hear about it. The media is mute. Did anybody here see Good Night and Good Luck with George Clooney? I loved that movie. I thought it was a brilliant illustration of what the media should be doing but ISN'T. They should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[eldragon]

Americans are too lazy/stupid/ignorant to engage in civil war. Unless it was a race war.

Not even a race war would coax Americans away from their TV sets and TV dinners. Thank God - but still.

 

[vicki2]

I don't think there's likely to be a civil war with actually combat, but I think there's likely to continue to be the civil war of ideology that we've seen in the last ten or so years. The country seems to get more and more split rather than moving toward any type of unity. I think this has to do with a lot of factors like the war, fundamental religion and such a barrage of information that no one knows what to think anymore. The average person just can't assimilate it all.

 

[dong]

There seems also to be an increasing gap between the "intellectuals" and
the rest- in that most of the neutral commentators can obviously see that both polarities are not actually engaging with each other and, as you say, are not going to in the near future, but where mob mentality rules, this is not a readily fixable problem.