Question 7 for Christians

[Libsmasher]

Christians say Christ died for our sins. An elemental concept of justice to me seems to be that the people who did wrong should suffer the penalty, not someone else. We remember whipping boys, boys raised along with noble children who would take their punishment for them, and scapegoats, people blamed for things for which they aren't responsible - both offensive ideas. Yet Christ died for everyone's sins - why should he have had to do that, and HOW could he have done that if God is just?

 

[numinus]

Christians say Christ died for our sins. An elemental concept of justice to me seems to be that the people who did wrong should suffer the penalty, not someone else. We remember whipping boys, boys raised along with noble children who would take their punishment for them, and scapegoats, people blamed for things for which they aren't responsible - both offensive ideas. Yet Christ died for everyone's sins - why should he have had to do that, and HOW could he have done that if God is just?

God made a covenant with abraham making his issue a chosen people. The symbol of that covenant is a burnt offering of a slaughtered ram.

That covenant is offered in the crucifixion, with jesus as god's lamb. This time, it is offered to everyone.

Justice is a direct result of divine love, which is the central theme of soteriology.

 

[9sublime]

If we are all Gods children... why did he select Abraham and his family?

 

[The Scotsman]

The symbol of that covenant is a burnt offering of a slaughtered ram.

.........sounds something like my missus serves for Sunday lunch!!??

 

[ilikeboobs]

.........sounds something like my missus serves for Sunday lunch!!??

HA HA HA! You're my hero.

 

[numinus]

If we are all Gods children... why did he select Abraham and his family?

Maybe it was only abraham who responded. Who knows?

 

[numinus]

.........sounds something like my missus serves for Sunday lunch!!??

I know the feeling.

 

[Libsmasher]

God made a covenant with abraham making his issue a chosen people. The symbol of that covenant is a burnt offering of a slaughtered ram.

That covenant is offered in the crucifixion, with jesus as god's lamb. This time, it is offered to everyone.

Justice is a direct result of divine love, which is the central theme of soteriology.

Can you explain that more simply to me?

 

[Pandora]

If we are all Gods children... why did he select Abraham and his family?

Abraham was selected that from his offspring the Messiah that would redeem the whole world would come.

 

[numinus]

Can you explain that more simply to me?

The crucifixion is not about crime and punishment.

People are going to commit sin, inevitably, as a part of the learning process. The crucifixion is a covenant -- a solemn promise -- that we are all forgiven regardless.

That is why its called the gospel -- GOOD NEWS. It wouldn't be much of a good news otherwise, would it?

 

[9sublime]

Abraham was selected that from his offspring the Messiah that would redeem the whole world would come.

But that doesn't explain why he needs to single certain people out.. seems like manipulation of a religion that has been swallowed down by the less dominant families.

 

[Pandora]

But that doesn't explain why he needs to single certain people out.. seems like manipulation of a religion that has been swallowed down by the less dominant families.

Let me try to re answer the first question again.

If we are all Gods children... why did he select Abraham and his family?

Short answer (from scripture) God called and Abraham listened, and did what God told him to do…Starting the covenant.

The longer answer is in Talmud. Abraham’s father was an idol maker; all the people in the land worshiped many types of gods/idols. Abraham (having never before this heard the call from (The God) knew the idols were not real. He made fun of them and put food in front of them watching them for hours to see if they would eat, when they didn’t eat, he made fun of them and insulted them. Then he smashed all of his father’s idols, making his father very upset. It was after this that God noticed Abraham and made a covenant with him. The covenant promised that the whole world would be blessed because of Abraham and through his seed would come the Messiah who would redeem the whole world.

I would not say it’s singling out people. It’s not like only blue eyed people can be redeemed or only red heads. It’s anyone who wants it. It’s free to anyone who says I want to be part of this covenant. Through out the story many different people join in the covenant. Some were non believers before; some were believers in something else.

But by joining this covenant you did certain things. Ate certain foods and didn’t eat other foods, wore certain clothing. God said His people were a peculiar people, unique. This is how the world would know who His people are, by the way they kept them selves.

 

[9sublime]

But regardless, the bloodline of Abraham is singled out for special treatment?

It sounds to me like Abraham was just a very convincing bull****ter.

 

[Pandora]

If there is only ONE Messiah born to accomplish a certain task..... And he has to come from some blood line what is wrong with picking someone who showed the greatest respect.

 

[The Scotsman]

.......he has to come from some blood line what is wrong with picking someone who showed the greatest respect.

But was he the best one for the job - sounds like the guy was a bit unhinged... wasn't he the guy that was going to kill his lad Isaac!!?? I think my Missus would have had somat to say if I'd marched my lad to the top of the garden with a sodding great knife - god or no god I'd be in for major amounts of grief

D'ya know, I bet he was in the same Masonic Lodge that's why he was chosenl!!!!