U.S. health care lagging

You either are not thinking, or you are not being honest.

Do you realize how many MORE request for treatment the population over 65 (or the disabled) have than the "healthy" population below the age of 65?

Would you mind taking that element in consideration before accusing medicare of refusing more claims?

As you will sooner or later find out, even as a "healthy" senior citizen, there are many more needs that occur. . .this is why all the other "private, for profit health care" do NOT WANT to cover that population.

And that is why there are more denial of care, especially for people who can't understand that, no matter how many treatment they undergo, no matter how many CT Scan, or MRI, their arthritis will not get better. And no matter how many CTScan of the brain are done, the sings of Alzheimers, or the decline in brain activity will not be corrected.



Medicare is socialized medicine and subject to the same rationing as seen in other countries. Ergo the denials and even the tx not even attempted for knowledge of what the answer will b e when asked. not to mention the policies in place that reward cost containment. of course the flip side is the fraud of claimin g care never delivered but thats a whole other thread.
 
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Health System Reflects Greece's Ills
BY CHARLES FORELLE

ATHENS—A few years ago, George Gianakouras, a retired salesman of hotel supplies from the Greek port town of Volos, was feeling sluggish. His doctors diagnosed heart disease. He was given cardiac drugs and scheduled for angioplasty and stenting at a hospital in Thessaloniki, Greece's second city.

Like nearly all Greeks, Mr. Gianakouras was covered by a state social-security fund, which paid €10,000 ($13,600) for the hospital bill. There was one more thing: Mr. Gianakouras said he gave his surgeon "black money"—€5,000 in cash—to perform the operation.

"If you don't pay," he said, "you don't get anything done."

Greece's constitution obliges ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203658804576638812089566384.html?KEYWORDS=greece

This in the WSJ today. I do not have the online subscription, so I can't post the full article. I do receive the hard copy.

The article goes on to state corruption is rampant in the Greek system. Greek doctors are poorly paid, so patients must pay if they want service. Wait times are long. Essentially their system is bankrupt and terribly inefficent.

I believe much of the Euro zone has the same problem...but the WHO rankings have Greece at 14 and the US at 37. NEED I SAY MORE....the WHO rankings are purely socialist propaganda as is much of the information we receive on HC!!!

Originally Posted by Dr. Who: I could not find a stat describing how many are denied in the UK. Anyone have that?

I don't think you will find that stat. Most of the socialist systems do a good job of hiding the truth and the American media does a great job of NOT looking for it.
 
This in the WSJ today. I do not have the online subscription, so I can't post the full article. I do receive the hard copy.

The article goes on to state corruption is rampant in the Greek system. Greek doctors are poorly paid, so patients must pay if they want service. Wait times are long. Essentially their system is bankrupt and terribly inefficent.

I believe much of the Euro zone has the same problem...but the WHO rankings have Greece at 14 and the US at 37. NEED I SAY MORE....the WHO rankings are purely socialist propaganda as is much of the information we receive on HC!!!



I don't think you will find that stat. Most of the socialist systems do a good job of hiding the truth and the American media does a great job of NOT looking for it.


Wrong again! You have no stats. . .you have no experience with the UK system, but you insist in believing the worse. ..just because it fills your needs!

Very silly attitude!
 
Medicare is socialized medicine and subject to the same rationing as seen in other countries. Ergo the denials and even the tx not even attempted for knowledge of what the answer will b e when asked. not to mention the policies in place that reward cost containment. of course the flip side is the fraud of claimin g care never delivered but thats a whole other thread.

And what would you do without medicare?

Do you know many elderly who could (even IF it was available. . .which it ITSN'T) afford private insurance without medicare?

So. . .what should those elderly people do?

We're back to "don't get sick or die" statement that was so outrageous when Grayson made it. . .but was totally accurate.

Or, I am certainly open to hearing YOUR plan to cover everyone over 65, and provide APPROPRIATE healthcare for them to the end of their NATURAL life?
 
And what would you do without medicare?

Do you know many elderly who could (even IF it was available. . .which it ITSN'T) afford private insurance without medicare?

So. . .what should those elderly people do?

We're back to "don't get sick or die" statement that was so outrageous when Grayson made it. . .but was totally accurate.

Or, I am certainly open to hearing YOUR plan to cover everyone over 65, and provide APPROPRIATE healthcare for them to the end of their NATURAL life?


yes, I do.

I was addressing the cause of rationing of care in Medicare. Your query is likely more appropriate in it's own thread. Might be a fun one.
 
Wrong again! You have no stats. . .you have no experience with the UK system, but you insist in believing the worse. ..just because it fills your needs!

Very silly attitude!

Again...meaningless.

The WSJ points out the inefficient and bankrupt HC system in Greece. It states patients must pay their doctors to get good care...yet you think socialist (free!) healthcare is the answer.

You chose to believe lies.

The WHO absurdly claims the Greek system is far superior to ours...apparently they have not asked Greeks about the Greek system.
 
Medicare is socialized medicine and subject to the same rationing as seen in other countries. Ergo the denials and even the tx not even attempted for knowledge of what the answer will b e when asked. not to mention the policies in place that reward cost containment. of course the flip side is the fraud of claimin g care never delivered but thats a whole other thread.

I'm on Medicare, and have been for a couple of years now.

I get the same level of care I did with private insurance.

The bottom line is that we seniors would not have health care without Medicare. Nobody, but no body wants to sell insurance to seniors, and if they did, it would be so expensive no one could afford it.

What we really should do is just gradually decrease the age requirement until everyone is eligible for Medicare. If employers had the option of paying into Medicare instead of paying for insurance for their employees, they could save a ton of money, probably more than they would save with a tax break.
 
I'm on Medicare, and have been for a couple of years now.

I get the same level of care I did with private insurance.

The bottom line is that we seniors would not have health care without Medicare. Nobody, but no body wants to sell insurance to seniors, and if they did, it would be so expensive no one could afford it.

What we really should do is just gradually decrease the age requirement until everyone is eligible for Medicare. If employers had the option of paying into Medicare instead of paying for insurance for their employees, they could save a ton of money, probably more than they would save with a tax break.


what you suggest might work until you consider that Medicare is already unable to pay its way with everyone paying in (remind you of SS ?) and that once pols see that income they will do what they always do which is divert the money into vote buying and take the huge problem they have today and dwarf it.

I'm glad your health is good enough that you don't notice a difference. Moreover I hope it stays that way. But its not that way for all.

I would prefer the government buy insurance from companies that do this for a living. I would really have preferred that Medicare never have come into being but that ship sailed long ago.
 
what you suggest might work until you consider that Medicare is already unable to pay its way with everyone paying in (remind you of SS ?) and that once pols see that income they will do what they always do which is divert the money into vote buying and take the huge problem they have today and dwarf it.

I'm glad your health is good enough that you don't notice a difference. Moreover I hope it stays that way. But its not that way for all.

I would prefer the government buy insurance from companies that do this for a living. I would really have preferred that Medicare never have come into being but that ship sailed long ago.


I've said it so often before. . .but obviously, no one answers, because there is no answer that pleases hard core GOP on this subject. . .so you just ignore what I say.
Still, I'll repeat it one more time.

Right now, the premium for private insurance to cover HEALTHY, relatively YOUNG population is about 12 times HIGHER than the cost of medicare to cover the most "at risk" elderly or disabled population.

This is the ONLY reason medicare is in trouble. You (when I say "you," I refer to every GOP supporter who insist in looking at any government program as "inefficient" without looking at the real reason why government program do not "make profits" like the private sector) have no problem with private, for profit insurance charging $500 to $1200 a month to cover a basically young (so low risk), and healthy (since they still have the "pre-existing condition clause") person. . but you complain about the cost of medicare, which charges only about $50.00 a month to people over 65 or eligible disabled persons (therefore. . .a high risk, hign need population) to assure that they will receive heatlhcare.

IF the medicare program was EXTENDED to EVERYONE as an OPTION, all age groups, all level of health, it would fulfill two very important goals that would totally reform the healthcare system and make it much cheaper for EVERYONE to acces:

EVERYONE would have the option to be covered, and yet would be able to keep their choice of being covered by a private insurance OR medicare.
And
The per capita cost of medicare would be drastically lowered because the "elderly and disabled" (very high needs/ high risks) would be compensated by the "younger and healthier" group (with much lower needs, and much lower risks). It would obviously also be lowered because the "pool" would be MUCH broader.

This may be enough to fix the medicare issue. . .if it were not, the medicare OPTION for younger people could be offered at a slightly higher cost (let's say, $150 per month) to people under the age of 65 who would SELECT (no obligation!) to sign up with "early medicare membership," and even that level of premium would be a HUGE saving for most people.

A concrete exemple of the excess of the private insurance system versus Medicare:

My husband had a stroke on New Years day 2011. He then had surgery to open a carotid artery 2 weeks later.

Medicare covered 90% of the cost (about $35,000 all together). Because we can afford it, he also has a Medicare suplemental insurance with a private insurance (Blue Cross/Blue shield) so the private insurance covered the 10% co-payment that Medicare didn't cover (or about $5,000).

Now, Medicare costs my husband about $50.00 per month. . . and they paid $35,000 in this instance alone.

Blue Cross/Blue shield (the supplemental insurance) costs my husband $179.00 per month. . .and they paid $5,000 in this instance.

This is the demonstration of the REAL reason why Medicare is "in trouble." It is not because they are "inefficient," but because they are covering elderly people and people who are REFUSED coverage by private insurance. . .unless the private insurance can charge a LOT of money to "supplement" medicare!"

Blue Cross/Blue shield WOULD NOT agree to cover my husband (or any person over the age of 65) for ANY amount of money IF he didn't have medicare.

Why don't you look at REALITY, instead of just listening to "propaganda?"

Or do you think we should just let people die once they are no longer eligible for private insurance?
 
yes, I do.

I was addressing the cause of rationing of care in Medicare. Your query is likely more appropriate in it's own thread. Might be a fun one.

I do not believe you know of many elderly people who would rather pay for private insurance (in fact, I don't think private insurance would cover them without MEDICARE being the "primary" insuranc anyway) than to use medicare as "primary" and a supplemental private insurance as "secondary!"

I think you need to verify your sources.

And. . .re: "refusal of services," Medicare covers ALL the NECESSARY services that are covered by private insurances. . .and private insurances AFTER THE AGE OF 65, will ONLY supplement services that are covered by medicare, and will reject any that medicare will not cover.

If you still believe that private insurance will cover "organ transplant" for people over 65 that Medicare would not cover. . . I'd like you to show me that in writing from a reputable source.

I live in a community of relatively wealthy people with a majority (about 85%) over the age of 65. . .and as old as 85. ALL of them, in spite of their relative wealth are HAPPY to be covered by medicare, and many of them (even at the age of 83) have received shoulder, knee, or hip replacement, hospitalisation for stroke or aneurysm with physical or speech therapy following those medical emergencies, and intensive cancer treatement (including pancreatic cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, colon cancer, cancer of the oesophagus, and cancer of the jaw).

NONE Of these people would have been able to keep their private health insurance without having Medicare as their primary, and none of these people would today be eligible. . .even if they were 20 years younger for a private insurance due to their "pre-existing condition."


I don't know where you get your information . . .but it is absolutely wrong. Have you EVER read the annual "medicare information" book that every person covered by medicare receives?

Have you EVER asked your own private insurance what happens when you reach the age of 65. . .whether you can select to stay with them, without signing up with medicare. . .and how much your premium would be?

YOU NEED to get some real information instead of spewing what you "think" medicare is or isn't!
 
Again...meaningless.

The WSJ points out the inefficient and bankrupt HC system in Greece. It states patients must pay their doctors to get good care...yet you think socialist (free!) healthcare is the answer.

You chose to believe lies.

The WHO absurdly claims the Greek system is far superior to ours...apparently they have not asked Greeks about the Greek system.


You have to go to a country that is bankrupt. . .like GREECE to find an ISOLATED exemple of why socialize medicine is "supposedly" bad?

And you call my statement "meaningless?"

Find an exemple of that in France, or in England?

I am not (although I only have YOUR word to rely on) saying that that ISOLATED incident did not happen. . .no more than you can say that FRAUD or abuse do not happen in your heralded "private for profit" American System!
 

All those links were really good, thank you for posting them! I have read a few of them before and they are all sad and it’s scary that this is what our system is going to turn into.

This link bothered me the most, but they all bothered me.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html
 

and for all that, they still have a higher cure rate than US medical providers. Pathetic, isn't it?
 
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and for all that, they still have a higher cure rate than US medical providers. Pathetic, isn't it?

And not only a higher cure rate, a lower rate of death from infection for hospitalized people!

MRSA Infection, U.S. Statistics
•Number MRSA infected each year: 880,000 (2007 numbers)
•% of hospital inpatients MRSA infected each year: 2.4%
•Additional cost per MRSA infection: at least $10,000
•Total cost of MRSA infections per year: around $8 billion
•Average increased length of stay: 6 extra hospital days
•% of people with MRSA infection who die from it: 5%
•Number of MRSA infection deaths per year: 20,000 to 40,000

MRSA Infection, Globally
The global situation of MRSA is a bit harder to get a handle on. In Europe, the problem doesn’t seem quite as bad as in the U.S., partly because of differences in the prescribing of antibioitics and partly because of control measures that have been put in place (such as mandatory MRSA screening for all patients in some settings). That said, an epidemic is still brewing and as MRSA travels from the U.S. to Europe, expect to see the rates increase there too.

And that. . .in spite of the fact that hospitalization is longer for the same condition in Europe as it is in the US (i.e., for the vaginal birth of a child, the norma time in the maternity ward in the US is 24 to 48 hours, in europe it is 4 to 7 days).

Funny how easy it is to find a few "headlines," but to ignore the real information and statistics.
 
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