UK man dies after being refused a liver transplant

[Pandora]

Clearly you've once again bought into the propaganda and swallowed the platitudinous rhetoric hook, line and sinker.

Have you read the bill? That's OK, neither has Obama but he too is pushing for its passage and making promises that are not supported by the bill he supports:



Here's another:



Obama also claimed the Mayo Clinic supports his bill... OOPS! No, they don't:





Andy, I warned you before and I'll say it again... If you keep PWNING Pocketfullofshat, the government will nationalize him.

House GOP Solutions Group Outlines Health Care Plan to Increase Affordability, Accessibility, Availability

There's the link to the GOP plan. I think its too weak myself and lacking in truly Capitalist solutions to the problem but its better than the Democrats plan of taking over the health care insurance industry.

Ah Gen, thanks for the post. This is what I was talking about in the other thread, the little hidden deal on insurance. This thing is a nightmare, I don’t mean just this very crappy bill but the energy it takes to try and see what these snakes who claim to represent us are doing behind our backs. Its draining to try and keep up with them.

 

[Andy]

Andy, since you as always are just ranting....care to show me where anyone said copy there system exacly? I dont see the Current plans as anything like what they have....nor have I seen anyone say lets do it the very same way as any other nation. More straw men I suspect as the republican party has no plan to fix anything

Does it matter? Every socialized health care system, suffers the exact same problems. It may take years, or months for the problems to show up, but in the end the exact same problems show up.

As long as you have government paying for your health care, there is going to be problems.

Canada is moving toward capitalism health care. France is moving towards capitalism health care. UK is moving towards capitalism health care.

Oh and for the record, I'm not a republican, so I don't give crap if they have a plan or not. Obama's plan sucks. Saying someone else doesn't have a solution, is not an excuse to choose something worse than what we have.

Why? They are all broke.

We're the only idiots moving towards socialized medicine. Whether we copy their lame system directly or not, is irrelevant. It's the socialization that is the problem, and is the direction we're going. You can choose any flavor of socialization you want, the result is still death.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Austria, Belgium, and Singapore as of a year ago were all considering mandatory organ donation to keep costs down and organs available. They may have already passed the laws since the last I looked into this was a while ago.

http://www.legalserviceindia.com/article/l224-Organ-Transplantation-Law-In-India.html

Australia has mandatory voting for all citizens, who would have thought a country would have a fine if you do not vote, but some do.

UK Organ Donation Controversy Barely Noticed by US Old Media

By Tom Blumer
January 20, 2008 - 12:50 ET
About a week ago, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown suggested in a UK Telegraph column that allowing hospitals to harvest organs from dead patients without their prior consent or their families' post-mortem consent might be a good idea.
Mr. Brown's occasion for bringing up the topic was telling, and perhaps explains why Brown's proposal got very little coverage in the US:
This year will be the 60th anniversary of the National Health Service: a year to celebrate and thank all the staff who run our hospitals, clinics and GP practices; but also a year in which to renew the NHS for the 21st century, because I believe that only by renewal can we make the NHS even more relevant for future decades than it has been in the past.
..... we may need to do more to encourage more of us to donate (organs. In Britain we have 14.9 million people on the organ donor register - which is around 24 per cent of the population. In terms of actual donors (not just people willing to give, but those whose organs are actually used) we have a rate of about 13 donors per million in our population. This compares with about 22 per million in France, 25 per million in America and around 35 per million in Spain - the best in the world.
That is why I want to start a debate in this country about whether we should take steps to move towards a new system designed to enable far more of us to benefit from transplant surgery - one that better reflects survey findings that around 90 per cent of us are in favour of organ donation.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-bl...ation-controversy-barely-noticed-us-old-media

But I thank you for your hate filled personal attacks at my asking the question...

Originally Posted by Pandora Oh that is really sad. Hey do you know if its mandatory to be a donor in the UK?

Let us review the 'magic marker connected dots' from the all anointed 'BIB':
1. Austria, Belgium, and Singapore were discussing this "mandatory donor option" and they MAY HAVE ALREADY VOTED ON IT BECAUSE THAT WAS OVER A YEAR AGO...NO LINKS, NO PROOF, NO QUOTATIONS, NO FACTS JUST A "MAY HAVE ALREADY VOTED ON IT...
Nope not buying this 'hypothetical' hogwash that you 'claim is substance enough'...put up or shut up...you have no proof. OMG...and yet you've connect those dots already...GOOD JOB 'BIB'

2. Posting "Australia has mandatory voting for all citizens, who would have thought a country would have a fine if you do not vote, but some do." Now I know that this will just send you into that hysterical whining jag/fit...but WTH does this have to do with 'mandatory organ donors'...explain that 'magic marker connected dots pattern'

3. Posting this brilliant piece: "allowing hospitals to harvest organs from dead patients without their prior consent or their families' post-mortem consent might be a good idea." You did read/notice/understand that this was about DEAD PEOPLE...right...your reading comprehension skills {poor and limited that they are} surely you were able to comprehend that he was asking for an open discussion about that feasibility to do that

4. You posted: But I thank you for your hate filled personal attacks at my asking the question... Why you are extremely welcome and it wasn't anything...I've been to the 'BOOBtheBuilder' school of public decorum and proper edicate class #101

So your compliment means soooo much to me...cause I know how you idolize his style/technique/word choices and his ability to get along on this community board!!! Thank You, I feel like I'm ready for my diploma/certificate/award from 'BOOB'...

 

[Andy]

You posted: But I thank you for your hate filled personal attacks at my asking the question... Why you are extremely welcome and it wasn't anything...I've been to the 'BOOBtheBuilder' school of public decorum and proper edicate class #101

So your compliment means soooo much to me...cause I know how you idolize his style/technique/word choices and his ability to get along on this community board!!! Thank You, I feel like I'm ready for my diploma/certificate/award from 'BOOB'...

If you have nothing to say worth reading, please do everyone a favor and shut up.

 

[GenSeneca]

4. You posted: But I thank you for your hate filled personal attacks at my asking the question... Why you are extremely welcome and it wasn't anything...I've been to the 'BOOBtheBuilder' school of public decorum and proper edicate class #101

Perhaps you will join him in the hall of the banned.

 

[Pandora]

Let us review the 'magic marker connected dots' from the all anointed 'BIB':
1. Austria, Belgium, and Singapore were discussing this "mandatory donor option" and they MAY HAVE ALREADY VOTED ON IT BECAUSE THAT WAS OVER A YEAR AGO...NO LINKS, NO PROOF, NO QUOTATIONS, NO FACTS JUST A "MAY HAVE ALREADY VOTED ON IT...
Nope not buying this 'hypothetical' hogwash that you 'claim is substance enough'...put up or shut up...you have no proof. OMG...and yet you've connect those dots already...GOOD JOB 'BIB'

Is this a new forum rule? You must have a link, and proof and quotations and facts to be able to ask a question? I asked a question, I did not commit murder. Had I known the answer to the question I would not have had to ask in the first place.

2. Posting "Australia has mandatory voting for all citizens, who would have thought a country would have a fine if you do not vote, but some do." Now I know that this will just send you into that hysterical whining jag/fit...but WTH does this have to do with 'mandatory organ donors'...explain that 'magic marker connected dots pattern'

I think the magic word is mandatory. Mandatory voting, mandatory donor programs. The key is different countries having mandatory programs that we here in the states would not be accustom to.

3. Posting this brilliant piece: "allowing hospitals to harvest organs from dead patients without their prior consent or their families' post-mortem consent might be a good idea." You did read/notice/understand that this was about DEAD PEOPLE...right...your reading comprehension skills {poor and limited that they are} surely you were able to comprehend that he was asking for an open discussion about that feasibility to do that

Did you think I was talking about mandatory donor from live people? You can not possibly think that any country (except for China) would be ok with mandatory donor programs harvesting organs from living human beings. Usually a donor liver comes from a dead person, considering that you need your liver to live.

4. You posted: But I thank you for your hate filled personal attacks at my asking the question... Why you are extremely welcome and it wasn't anything...I've been to the 'BOOBtheBuilder' school of public decorum and proper edicate class #101

Yes, I can see how clearly satisfied you are with yourself over Bob, may you rejoice twice as much when they ban me

So your compliment means soooo much to me...cause I know how you idolize his style/technique/word choices and his ability to get along on this community board!!! Thank You, I feel like I'm ready for my diploma/certificate/award from 'BOOB'...

I think Bob lost his temper too much but if being here means we have to take personal abuse from you, then he is probably the one who is better off...

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Perhaps you will join him in the hall of the banned.

from the man who called me pocketfullo**** 2 posts ago....

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Is this a new forum rule? You must have a link, and proof and quotations and facts to be able to ask a question? I asked a question, I did not commit murder. Had I known the answer to the question I would not have had to ask in the first place.

1. Austria, Belgium, and Singapore were discussing this "mandatory donor option" and they MAY HAVE ALREADY VOTED ON IT BECAUSE THAT WAS OVER A YEAR AGO...NO LINKS, NO PROOF, NO QUOTATIONS, NO FACTS JUST A "MAY HAVE ALREADY VOTED ON IT...

I love the repetitious posting of your very own words that we have to supply you with...since you seem so incapable of following your own posts...HOLY BAT CRAP!!! You get lost in your own B.S. posts...LMAO

If you need to 'THINK' of this as a 'NEW RULE' then by all means...but at least provide some documentation to those 'HYPOTETHICAL' words that you 'CLAIM' you saw...due to your recreations of "those aren't my words" comments, you continually post and then you back track and provide the 'Original Author/Article'.

I think the magic word is mandatory. Mandatory voting, mandatory donor programs. The key is different countries having mandatory programs that we here in the states would not be accustom to.

BA DA BUMP...and that is your explanation for those connected dots. Well, alrighty then...that explains the continual confusion. OMG, OMG, OMG ROTFLMAO

Did you think I was talking about mandatory donor from live people? You can not possibly think that any country (except for China) would be ok with mandatory donor programs harvesting organs from living human beings. Usually a donor liver comes from a dead person, considering that you need your liver to live.

Seems as though the this 'confusion' stems from YOUR inability to follow a POINT...You tossed the 'Mr. Brown wants to have this discussion about the 'dead donor program' into this topic and expected the rest of us to follow that line of of disjointed connect dots...YA - RIGHT

Yes, I can see how clearly satisfied you are with yourself over Bob, may you rejoice twice as much when they ban me

BOOBthebuilder...why, did he get impaled with his own petard...and you think that it makes me 'satisfied'. Your ability to 'ASSume' many things is, well, it is very, very telling. Maybe you should have tutored him more efficiently and spent less time 'bombing/stalking/my reputation marks'...but you have taught me a nice skill so your efforts were not in VAIN...

I think Bob lost his temper too much but if being here means we have to take personal abuse from you, then he is probably the one who is better off...

If this is how you feel...then do not let that door hit you in the 'ARSE' as you vacate the community...he/you dish it out and then whine when you get splattered with the same fecal matter.

Can't handle the p!ss!ing match...then don't start it 'BIB' You decided who you wanted to win and went after me like 'STINK ON SH!T' and it back fired. You encouraged BOOB and look where it took him. GOOD JOB..."BIB"...GOOD JOB, INDEED!!!

 

[Pandora]

I love the repetitious posting of your very own words that we have to supply you with...since you seem so incapable of following your own posts...HOLY BAT CRAP!!! You get lost in your own B.S. posts...LMAO

If you need to 'THINK' of this as a 'NEW RULE' then by all means...but at least provide some documentation to those 'HYPOTETHICAL' words that you 'CLAIM' you saw...due to your recreations of "those aren't my words" comments, you continually post and then you back track and provide the 'Original Author/Article'.
BA DA BUMP...and that is your explanation for those connected dots. Well, alrighty then...that explains the continual confusion. OMG, OMG, OMG ROTFLMAO
Seems as though the this 'confusion' stems from YOUR inability to follow a POINT...You tossed the 'Mr. Brown wants to have this discussion about the 'dead donor program' into this topic and expected the rest of us to follow that line of of disjointed connect dots...YA - RIGHT
BOOBthebuilder...why, did he get impaled with his own petard...and you think that it makes me 'satisfied'. Your ability to 'ASSume' many things is, well, it is very, very telling. Maybe you should have tutored him more efficiently and spent less time 'bombing/stalking/my reputation marks'...but you have taught me a nice skill so your efforts were not in VAIN...

If this is how you feel...then do not let that door hit you in the 'ARSE' as you vacate the community...he/you dish it out and then whine when you get splattered with the same fecal matter.

Can't handle the p!ss!ing match...then don't start it 'BIB' You decided who you wanted to win and went after me like 'STINK ON SH!T' and it back fired. You encouraged BOOB and look where it took him. GOOD JOB..."BIB"...GOOD JOB, INDEED!!!

This is going no where. We have taken up more of this thread with a fight over my asking a question to Little-Acorn. So Little-Acorn can have his thread back will you settle for me saying I am sorry to you that I left the post to Little-Acorn saying.....

Oh that is really sad. Hey do you know if its mandatory to be a donor in the UK?

and please end this?

 

[Little-Acorn]

Is this a new forum rule? You must have a link, and proof and quotations and facts to be able to ask a question?

No, it's just a standard liberal dodge. People who can't answer the questions being asked (or who don't want to, because the answers will show them wrong), try to divert attention by asking completely different questions, and/or attacking a member over something completely unimportant and irrelevant.

ASPCA does that a lot, since he can rarely defend his own agenda (fanatic leftism). Looks like he picked on you this time, and you fell for it instead of ignoring him as most of us do.

Live and learn.

 

[Pandora]

No, it's just a standard liberal dodge. People who can't answer the questions being asked (or who don't want to, because the answers will show them wrong), try to divert attention by asking completely different questions, and/or attacking a member over something completely unimportant and irrelevant.

ASPCA does that a lot, since he can rarely defend his own agenda (fanatic leftism). Looks like he picked on you this time, and you fell for it instead of ignoring him as most of us do.

Live and learn.

Well I am sorry about your thread being hijacked, I should have just ignored it.
The topic is an important one, so hopefully we can just move on and get back to it.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Well I am sorry about your thread being hijacked,

Pssst... I just checked, and the thread is still here.

The topic is an important one, so hopefully we can just move on and get back to it.

For those who sat thru ASPCA's running his mouth on everything except the thread subject, it distills into a simple question.

Are we better off with government bureaucrats having all power in medical affairs (as the US system will deteriorate into when costs rise far beyond anything the tax base can support), or with thousands of individual doctors and patients working things out bewtween them without interference from govt?

 

[Pandora]

Pssst... I just checked, and the thread is still here.



For those who sat thru ASPCA's running his mouth on everything except the thread subject, it distills into a simple question.

Are we bettter off with government bureaucrats having all power in medical affairs (as the US system will deteriorate into when costs rise far beyond anything the tax base can support), or with thousands of individual doctors and patients working things out bewtween them without interference from govt?

It seems to me we would be worse off if this bill passed, but there is no proof of that except to look at other places where similar things have been tried and failed.

That is an argument that you can not win or lose till its been done and we see the effects, but then of course its too late. I think you are right and I am right but no one who disagrees will change their minds based on that.

I am concerned with these things right now

A file of my medical records and my child’s medical records in government hands. They could not keep someone from hacking into all the candidates passport files, they could not stop someone from hacking in the white house computer system a few months ago. I do not feel our medical records are safe stored in some government data base. It seems like a complete invasion of privacy to force us to do this. I am kind of disturbed that those on the left who advocate for privacy have not spoken out against this.

I do not like that little added thing on I think page 14 about future employers not being able to add you to their insurance, and you will be forced to take the government option.

I do not have the clips but there are at least two clips by obama (not counting the recent ones where he admitted not knowing what all is in this bill) where he talked about an older woman needing surgery and suggesting she might be able to settle for pain medication instead. I don’t want my government telling people to settle for something when there is a way they can be healed/cured all because the government forced a government plan on us.

Everything about this current health care bill makes me uncomfortable.

 

[Andy]

Well given that Medicare / medicaid and social security combined is projected to be $1,438 Billion dollars, and that the FICA tax will only bring in $939 Billion in taxes, I don't see any problem here do you?

And also when you consider the deficit is projected to be $1.4 Trillion dollars next year, not to mention $60 Trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities of Medicare ALONE....

Now Pandora hun... what possible reason could you have for feeling uncomfortable about the Federal government assuming the expenses of 309 Million peoples health care? Surely you are simply over reacting....

I'm starting to think the next 10 years will be a living nightmare, a dozen times worse than Carter. But... there's always a stray change that... really I do not even know what could save us.

 

[Pandora]

Well given that Medicare / medicaid and social security combined is projected to be $1,438 Billion dollars, and that the FICA tax will only bring in $939 Billion in taxes, I don't see any problem here do you?

And also when you consider the deficit is projected to be $1.4 Trillion dollars next year, not to mention $60 Trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities of Medicare ALONE....

Now Pandora hun... what possible reason could you have for feeling uncomfortable about the Federal government assuming the expenses of 309 Million peoples health care? Surely you are simply over reacting....

I'm starting to think the next 10 years will be a living nightmare, a dozen times worse than Carter. But... there's always a stray change that... really I do not even know what could save us.

I am so worried about the spending. It was horrible under President George Bush, like a credit card nightmare that you knew would take years to fix. I am not sure this new spending is ever repayable. Its so much more and obama is no where near done spending... he has just began.

I see the same nightmare coming, and I feel really bad for our kids. We will go down in history as the worst possible generation, the spoiled rotten grandchildren of the greatest generation.