What is a liberal?

PLC1

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I told you so. Here is the thread:

We hear a lot about "liberals", but very little about the definition of the term.

Just what is a liberal, in your opinion? Is it a term that has a generally agreed upon definition, or is it simply a buzzword? What do you think?
 
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bododie

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I think that a liberal is someone who believes that everyone has a right to pursue happiness, as long as it is what the liberal has decided "happiness" is. If your opinion differs from the liberal point of view, then you are a neo-con and should die.

Do I win the $700 ceramic dalmation?????
 

revolution4PAUL

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I think the we shouldn't put our selves into groups as much. We are all people, how could we be so adamant about a certain party/ideology. People mold their selves into these parties to maybe feel accepted or something, idk. Just be yourself, listen to what people have to say but use your mind and opinions to conclude whats right. Lets not bias ourselves because of parties. Sorry this post is kind of off the subject and I would like to hear other peoples thoughts about the word... But, just something to keep in mind.
 

bododie

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how could we be so adamant about a certain party/ideology.

Because there are certain ideologies that I don't want LAW dictating that I have to accept. I do not support illegal immigration. I do not believe that being "traumatized" as a kid should be used to give anyone an excuse to commit a heinous crime (insanity plea). These are ideologies (just a few of a lot more that I have) that I am passionate about. As a supporter of Ron Paul (as am I), I would suspect that you support the ideology of "constitutionalism", as it was written, and not how "special interest" groups might want to amend it to suit them, and to hell with everyone else.
 

revolution4PAUL

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As a supporter of Ron Paul (as am I), I would suspect that you support the ideology of "constitutionalism", as it was written, and not how "special interest" groups might want to amend it to suit them, and to hell with everyone else.


Yes, I do support the ideology of constuituionalism, and the hell with the lobbyist groups. I guess I'm a noob to 'political consciousness' and just started to pay attention to politics because I'm growing up and GWB made me(and I'm sure a lot of other people) realize how how much these politicians can be maliciously convoluted.

I guess I'm too new to the political game and haven't found 'a label' for me and people to like and hate~lol~, I just feel like we are all people and no one can have the exact same ideas as another person on a subject unless you don't have a mind for your own. My parents brought me up democratic but I'm going to vote RON PAUL in on my ballet.


:D
 

bododie

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I really hope that a lot more younger voters try to get this country back on track. I see too much apathy among the young. We boomers meant well, but boy did we mess it up! There's a song which says it all. "If everyone is singing, there'll be no one to fight". Won't happen, but we can get better. You give me hope, which is always better than a cleat in the eye!
 

PLC1

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Because there are certain ideologies that I don't want LAW dictating that I have to accept. I do not support illegal immigration. I do not believe that being "traumatized" as a kid should be used to give anyone an excuse to commit a heinous crime (insanity plea). These are ideologies (just a few of a lot more that I have) that I am passionate about. As a supporter of Ron Paul (as am I), I would suspect that you support the ideology of "constitutionalism", as it was written, and not how "special interest" groups might want to amend it to suit them, and to hell with everyone else.

So far, we have liberals are people who support illegal immigration, who don't accept the insanity defense.

Anything else that liberals stand for?
 

bododie

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Gosh oh golly, I don't know.. Globalism? socialism? secularism? and maybe apple pie and dumping barbies? You tell me.
 

PLC1

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Gosh oh golly, I don't know.. Globalism? socialism? secularism? and maybe apple pie and dumping barbies? You tell me.

OK, I'll tell you what my definition is:

A liberal is someone who sees government as the solution to problems, and therefore favors a powerful central government.

A conservative is just the opposite: Someone who sees government as a necessary evil to be kept as small as possible.

But, that's just my definition. I think there are many definitions, and that the people posting on this forum will never be able to agree on a single one.

Of course, secularism, apple pie, and barbie dolls have nothing at all to do with that definition.
 

bododie

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Man, you were being all serious, and I was goofin' . My bad. I agree with your definitions of each.
 

Libsmasher

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Libs can be defined by their policies:

- pro appeasement
- pro abortion
- pro bureacracy and regulation
- anti trade
- pro white racial discrimination
- pro taxes
- anti US sovereignty
- pro illegal alien
- pro balkanization
- pro statist
- anti capitalist
- pro ecofascist
- pro health care rationing
 

Bunz

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Liberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal.
By this definition, I am a liberal. By Libsmasher's definition, despite being called a lib over and over and over and over, I am not entirely liberal.
- pro appeasement
No appeasement from me. Peacefull diplomacy yes, until all other options have been exhausted.
- pro abortion
I dont think people should be using it as birth control, but believe it is up to that person to choose.
- pro bureacracy and regulation
Where it is needed, absolutely. Although I tend to dislike bureacracy, but it does serve some purpose.
- anti trade
Fair trade does not mean anti-trade
- pro white racial discrimination
:rolleyes: I knew this was coming. I want equal opportunity.
- pro taxes
Only on the richest.
- anti US sovereignty
In what sense Libs? I think we need to lead the way, and minimize foreigners meddling in our affairs, the same as I dont like us meddling in the affairs of others
- pro illegal alien
Not me, but I do notice that the GOP has no desire to do squat about the issue. They want the cheap labor.
- pro balkanization
I see no reason to continue with a bad marraige. Sometimes divorce is necessary, though not always desirable.
- pro statist
Hmmm...ive always thought of this as a hallmark of the GOP.
- anti capitalist
Regulated markets when necessary is not anti-capitalist
- pro ecofascist
I say build 20 new refineries, drill ANWR, create a new ANWR and drill there as well. But ecofacist is something entirely different from being concerned about the enviroment and not wanting industry and the government to run roughshot around the country side without regard to it, the people surrounding the area and cleaning up afterwards.
- pro health care rationing
Rationing? Liberals dont want any health care rationed. We want everyone to have what the need. Rationing health care based on wealth is the cornerstone of the right.
 

foggedinn

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I told you so. Here is the thread:

We hear a lot about "liberals", but very little about the definition of the term.

Just what is a liberal, in your opinion? Is it a term that has a generally agreed upon definition, or is it simply a buzzword? What do you think?

From a political propective, it's just a buzzword.

If I accepted the diffinition of the word liberal given by people that call themselves conservative, I would never want to be anything like that. By the same token, if I accepted the diffinition of conservative given by people who consider themselve liberal, I wouldn't want to be that either.

I've never heard a diffinition of republican that was given by a democrat that was positive. I've never heard a diffinition of democrat given by a republican that was positive.

In the words of my master; "A house divided against itself cannot stand"
 

Libsmasher

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Liberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal.
By this definition, I am a liberal. By Libsmasher's definition, despite being called a lib over and over and over and over, I am not entirely liberal.

You are confusing (deliberately?) classical liberalism, which indeed refers to personal liberty, with the the corrupted meaning that is the definition in america 2008.

No appeasement from me. Peacefull diplomacy yes, until all other options have been exhausted.

Then you are a rare liberal. Liberals have usually opposed confronting dictators, whether in the soviet union, vietnam, iraq, or iran, but have loved to schmooze with them and praise them, eg Castro, and the sandinistas.

I dont think people should be using it as birth control, but believe it is up to that person to choose.

Another indication you are a rare liberal. For the feminzai liberal, the one who has driven abortion policy in the US, the only bad abortion is the one that doesn't happen.

Where it is needed, absolutely. Although I tend to dislike bureacracy, but it does serve some purpose.

With a lib origin, more often than not a bad purpose.

Fair trade does not mean anti-trade

"Fair trade" is just a lib gimmick - it's and attempt to suppress free trade by imposing impossible labor and ecofascist standards on emerging economies. Supporters of freedom have learned to be very suspicious when libs use the word "fair", eg with their "Fairness Doctrine" scheme to suppress free political speech.

I knew this was coming. I want equal opportunity.

Saying "equal opportunity" is "affirmative action" is the same as saying sh_t is ice cream.

Only on the richest.

Yaaaa - the ones that create jobs. But the libs thrive on decay - hey, new welfare cases are new democrat votes.

In what sense Libs? I think we need to lead the way, and minimize foreigners meddling in our affairs, the same as I dont like us meddling in the affairs of others

Law of the Sea Treaty

International Criminal Court

International ecofascism

Read up - get a clue.

Not me, but I do notice that the GOP has no desire to do squat about the issue. They want the cheap labor.

Do you realize how much confusing the GOP with conservatives makes you look like an idiot? :)

I see no reason to continue with a bad marraige. Sometimes divorce is necessary, though not always desirable.

You don't understand what I'm talking about.

Hmmm...ive always thought of this as a hallmark of the GOP.

Lib:

- big taxes
- big regulation
- suppression of right to free speech
- suppression of right to religious expression
- suppression of right to firarms
- obliteration of the equal protection clause
- attempt to implement socialization of health care - one seventh of the US economy

BOY, DO YOU HAVE THAT WRONG! :D

Regulated markets when necessary is not anti-capitalist

Hardly describes the scope of libs anti-capitalism.

I say build 20 new refineries, drill ANWR, create a new ANWR and drill there as well. But ecofacist is something entirely different from being concerned about the enviroment and not wanting industry and the government to run roughshot around the country side without regard to it, the people surrounding the area and cleaning up afterwards.

Once again - nowhere within orders of magnitude of effects of libs ecofascist plans - they wanted Kyoto - just THAT would throw tens of millions of americans out of work. But you're OK with your oil royalties.

Rationing? Liberals dont want any health care rationed.

Like saying I want to chase pigs through the pigpen, but I don't want to get muddy.
:)
 
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Dr.Who

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I told you so. Here is the thread:

We hear a lot about "liberals", but very little about the definition of the term.

Just what is a liberal, in your opinion? Is it a term that has a generally agreed upon definition, or is it simply a buzzword? What do you think?

There is a definition of liberal that we could find out there on the web and it looks great on paper. But then there is what are liberal politicians are doing. ( the same could be said for conservative).

They are not one monolithic group but as a whole they tend to support the same cluster of ideas.

Big centralized government
pro big federal taxes
anti big business/capitalism
pro abortion
anti Christian
the constitution is a "living" document
pro gay
pro minority
pro women
anti white male establishement

Now that being said some of these ideas sound good on paper too. But the reality and the details of what is proposed are far from noble. (the same could be said about conservatives) And there are some astounding for libs, contradictions like: big business is bad and the military is bad but big government is good, even though the governement is actually the biggest business in the country and the military is a part of that big business.

It is though, my opinion, that the worst of the reality of the liberals and the best of the reality of the liberals is not as good as the worst of the reality of the conservatives and the best of the reality of the conservatives.
 
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