Heavy Republican House dist in NY goes Dem..

[Gipper]

This thread proves some liberals are delusional.

The OP makes outrageous assertions, all of which are lies and misrepresentations promoted by the Ds and left wing press. And, the poster continues to believe those lies and misrepresentations even after being proven wrong.

This also proves liberals will believe whatever the lib media and D party tell them to believe. They are sheeple!!!

Is it any wonder that throughout history some people gladly and blindly accept tyranny...

 

[BigRob]

If this plan is soo good why not just say it effects evryone next year? simple becuse they know it sucks and evryone would see just how bad that much faster.

Because any mention of changing Medicare and you get dragged over the coals by Democrats as hating old people and wanting to kill them.

Using your argument, I could just say, if the healthcare bill is so good, why doesn't it go into effect tomorrow? Clearly it must be because it "sucks" right?

The Bill takes the closed Donuthole...and opens it back up...meaning they pay today.

The bill seeks to save Medicare....which is going bankrupt.

Medicare is more effeicent then for profit care...also no profit...so how is paying for added profits and less efficiency going to lower cost....wait I know...don't give them enough to cover the cost so its paid out of pocket...or out of the states pocket.

The only thing Medicare is efficiently doing is going bankrupt.

The fact is, Republicans pretend we can't afford health care for older
people....but always find money for a tax cut.

We don't have money for teachers and public workers...but we do for a tax
cut.

we have no money to help people who lost homes in Tornados in the midwest...but we do for tax cuts

we have no money for services for the poor...but we do...for taxcuts

Sorry grandma...we got to pay off the oil companies to make more record
profits...

you want to pretend this bill is good for Sr.'s go for it, I hope the Republican party defends it evry day till Election time...But I think more and more are going to see the writing on the wall...Newt Did...but he paid the Republican
price for saying something that republicans cant let be said...the truth.

This is just rhetoric not really backed by reality....is it your assertion that we do not have a spending problem? And is it further your assertion that the CBO is wrong here?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

So you are saying the NY republicans are too retarded to know the difference between an ex-Democrat running as a tea-party candidate and vote accordingly? Yeah, I can see that.

also he can't figure out that if you win one year by like 35% and 2 years later you lose ...its not the 8% that voted for a third party you lost.

in fact many who vote for third parties are like me...and have no desire to vote for any main party regardless.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Because any mention of changing Medicare and you get dragged over the coals by Democrats as hating old people and wanting to kill them.

Using your argument, I could just say, if the healthcare bill is so good, why doesn't it go into effect tomorrow? Clearly it must be because it "sucks" right?




The bill seeks to save Medicare....which is going bankrupt.



The only thing Medicare is efficiently doing is going bankrupt.



This is just rhetoric not really backed by reality....is it your assertion that we do not have a spending problem? And is it further your assertion that the CBO is wrong here?

My assertion is that Medicare handles health care for a large and growing group of people with very high medical costs...more efficently then any private one will. All this plan does is shift the burden to the old people, hands the profits to the insurance companies, and in the end shifts the cost to the states or old people. It does not decrease the cost of health care for older people...it shifts the payment to them...Oddly old people with no jobs and set income...not going to be a big fan of , go pick a worse coverage, and pay more for it..vote for me.

there are only a few ways to save health care for older people
Lower costs a great deal...this plan does not do that.
increase amount on money in the fund to pay for it...this will not do that.
Decrease the coverage people will be able to get...this will do that
Increase out of pocket costs...this bill does that.
and Inderectly this Bill will be picked up by states....or will results in more economic hardship for some of the people least able to do anything about it...and or result in less health care for them...leading to less old people to worry about.

And the people are not stupid...this is a program most Americans want, and Repubicans are going to pay a price for trying to destroy it....that price started a few days ago.

 

[Rick]

Medicare is a train wreck which will eventually happen, and democrats, the people for whom the only thing that gives any meaning to their life is seizing and holding political power, will cynically use attempts to reform it as strictly an opportunity to score political points with demogogy. This is the same thing they do with the illegal alien invasion - allowing the country to be flooded with illiterate mexican peasants because it promises them a vote bonus in the future. They don't give a shiit about this country - only opportunities for increasing their political control by whatever means, no matter how much they wreck the country in the process.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Medicare is a train wreck which will eventually happen, and democrats, the people for whom the only thing that gives any meaning to their life is seizing and holding political power, will cynically use attempts to reform it as strictly an opportunity to score political points with demogogy. This is the same thing they do with the illegal alien invasion - allowing the country to be flooded with illiterate mexican peasants because it promises them a vote bonus in the future. They don't give a shiit about this country - only opportunities for increasing their political control by whatever means, no matter how much they wreck the country in the process.

well guess 80% of the population likes the train wreck...as they like Medicare...and are against ending it....as this plan does...

enjoy watching the Dems take back the house if they don't figure out something on this.

 

[clarkatticus]

Medicare is a train wreck which will eventually happen, and democrats, the people for whom the only thing that gives any meaning to their life is seizing and holding political power, will cynically use attempts to reform it as strictly an opportunity to score political points with demogogy. This is the same thing they do with the illegal alien invasion - allowing the country to be flooded with illiterate mexican peasants because it promises them a vote bonus in the future. They don't give a shiit about this country - only opportunities for increasing their political control by whatever means, no matter how much they wreck the country in the process.

Medicare was not a train wreck until the population grew unexpectadly older, in the original version this was not allowed for. Add to this a totally unfunded perscription program and you have what you see now. Social Security has the same problem made worse by raiding the fund in 2005. I ran good for 75 years. What to do? You suggest shifting the cost to the elderly and the states. I say there can be more revenue brought in and the program is so important that all means should be used to not only save it but expand it as it is much more efficient than the private sector. Raising the eligibility limit is the only fair option, make it automatic with the demand and an option to be voted for increased revenue (tax)

 

[Rick]

Medicare was not a train wreck until the population grew unexpectadly older, in the original version this was not allowed for. Add to this a totally unfunded perscription program and you have what you see now. Social Security has the same problem made worse by raiding the fund in 2005. I ran good for 75 years. What to do? You suggest shifting the cost to the elderly and the states. I say there can be more revenue brought in and the program is so important that all means should be used to not only save it but expand it as it is much more efficient than the private sector. Raising the eligibility limit is the only fair option, make it automatic with the demand and an option to be voted for increased revenue (tax)

The population surge was not unexpected - in fact it could be seen coming for 60 years. The "baby boom" generation was a population surge - men coming back from world war two had babies like crazy, and now this group is hitting retirement age. This certain event should have been planned for back when democrats created medicare in the sixities. Likewise, social security is essentially a ponzi scheme. It took no account of the fact that people could be expected to live a lot longer than in the 1930s when it was created. Both are flawed democrat social programs. The medicare program is expensive for all the reasons that health care is expensive, and they all go back in one way or another to flawed government policy:

- The tort lawyer predators creating huge liability insurance costs for doctors, and defensive medicine costs for patients

- Inability to crack down medicare and medicaid fraud

- Looting of the medical system by illegal alien invaders

- Prohibition of interstate competition in medical insurance

- Cost shifting of medicare/medicaid costs on to the backs of insurance companies

- Refusal of the US to crack down on international piracy of US drug patents, particularly by socialist medical systems

- State mandates on insurance companies to provide coverage for non-diseases like abortion and pregnancy

 

[clarkatticus]

1-Tort reform, I am for it, Obama offered it to the GOP during the health care debate
2-medicare fraud-anywhere from 10 to 20%, about the same as private insurance
3-illegal immigrants are not allowed on medicare or itis fraud (see #2) States, however, can and do offer it to illegals. Would you like the Federal Gov to tell the States what to do with their money?
4-I am 100% FOR portability, a coalition of Dems and GOP congressmen killed any chance of it during the health debates. the insurance companies themselves lobbied againsed it, Obama and Reid were forced to drop it from the bill
5-this goes to a fundimental ideological differance, do you believe health care should be part and parcel with capitalism or is it a necessity like national security? Should we control how much profit a private ins. company can make vs the health of the customer?
6-patent infringment is widespread especially in the Far East, recent treaties with China has put more pressure, but more can be done.
7- federal insurance can not be used for abortion, prenatal care is part of a cost saving preventive program. States can do what they want with their money, again, do you want to tell states what they can do with their money?

 

[clarkatticus]

Oh, and Rick, when I said the population is growing older, I mean older, not more populated. Life expectancy in the 1930's for men was in the late 50's and women in the 60's, quite a change in the curve. This is why the entry age should be adjusted.

 

[Rick]

1-Tort reform, I am for it, Obama offered it to the GOP during the health care debate

That's just plain false.

2-medicare fraud-anywhere from 10 to 20%, about the same as private insurance

I seriously doubt that - cite proof from a credible source.

3-illegal immigrants are not allowed on medicare or itis fraud (see #2) States, however, can and do offer it to illegals.

It's not that simple. One source of medicare problems is that reimbursements are way insufficient. That's because medical care is very expensive. One reason it is so expensive is because the costs incurred by the hordes of non-paying illegal alien invaders that crowd ERs in the southwest are cost-shifted onto paying customers - raising all costs.

4-I am 100% FOR portability, a coalition of Dems and GOP congressmen killed any chance of it during the health debates. the insurance companies themselves lobbied againsed it, Obama and Reid were forced to drop it from the bill

Portability has nothing to do with medicare.

5-this goes to a fundimental ideological differance, do you believe health care should be part and parcel with capitalism or is it a necessity like national security? Should we control how much profit a private ins. company can make vs the health of the customer?

Food is a necessity - does that mean stores should be run or controlled by the government?

6-patent infringment is widespread especially in the Far East, recent treaties with China has put more pressure, but more can be done.

How about india - they only recognize patents for one year. Then they sell ripoffs of US pharmaceutical company meds to places like canada, so that uninformed libidiots can tell us that meds are cheaper under their socialist system.

- federal insurance can not be used for abortion

For the time being - if the leftwing gets their healthcare takeover, they'll eliminate the hyde amendment in due course for sure. States however mandate it for insurance companies, raising costs by covering a medical procedure for something that is not a disease, unless you're a feminazi.

prenatal care is part of a cost saving preventive program. States can do what they want with their money, again, do you want to tell states what they can do with their money?

I didn't mention pre-natal care, and sure states can have all the irrational policies they want - I was pointing out to you what the reasons are that healthcare is expensive, all in one way or another caused by government.

 

[clarkatticus]

1-tort reform, see Obama's State of the Union Address, 1-25-11
2-googel coalition againsed insurance fraud (made up of private ins companies)
3-So now it's the states that are the problem, giving health care to illegals, I agree with the premis that it raises costs, but that's not a medicare problem
4-portability is allowing insurance companies to compete in all states, it is the insurance companies that lobby the states to not allow portability, so it's on them. Medicare would do away with this
5-India has promised patent infringment reform, like you I'll believe it when I see it. Canada is also talking reform of it's buying protocol-ditto from above
6-Congress, mainly Dems, just voted in a strengthening of the Hyde amendment with the health bill last year, what more do you want?
7-health care is expensive because the insurance companies have to sell stocks and compete with each other, sweetheart deals made with big pharma drove up the cost of drugs, redundant testing, lack of preventitive medicine, tort claims and a general lack of organization on a national scale.
8-Food, I saved this one for last. The food industry is just about the most heavily regulated industries in the US, this includes price controls, crop subsidies, inspection, logistics and licensing (I have a dairy weighing and sampling license)

 

[pocketfullofshells]

1-tort reform, see Obama's State of the Union Address, 1-25-11
2-googel coalition againsed insurance fraud (made up of private ins companies)
3-So now it's the states that are the problem, giving health care to illegals, I agree with the premis that it raises costs, but that's not a medicare problem
4-portability is allowing insurance companies to compete in all states, it is the insurance companies that lobby the states to not allow portability, so it's on them. Medicare would do away with this
5-India has promised patent infringment reform, like you I'll believe it when I see it. Canada is also talking reform of it's buying protocol-ditto from above
6-Congress, mainly Dems, just voted in a strengthening of the Hyde amendment with the health bill last year, what more do you want?
7-health care is expensive because the insurance companies have to sell stocks and compete with each other, sweetheart deals made with big pharma drove up the cost of drugs, redundant testing, lack of preventitive medicine, tort claims and a general lack of organization on a national scale.
8-Food, I saved this one for last. The food industry is just about the most heavily regulated industries in the US, this includes price controls, crop subsidies, inspection, logistics and licensing (I have a dairy weighing and sampling license)

you know you spent all that time, and he will not look at any of them right?

 

[Rick]

Clarkatticus:

1-tort reform, see Obama's State of the Union Address, 1-25-11

You said he offered it during the debate, but obozocare was ALREADY passed into law when that speech was made, and I can't find any reference to tort reform in the speech.

2-googel coalition againsed insurance fraud (made up of private ins companies)

Give an exact citation and link - I'm not going on a hunting expedition.

3-So now it's the states that are the problem, giving health care to illegals, I agree with the premis that it raises costs, but that's not a medicare problem

I SAID the problem was government - I didn't narrow it down to a level of government - read more carefully. I also carefully laid out for you how it affects medicare - apparently you don't have a rebuttal.

4-portability is allowing insurance companies to compete in all states, it is the insurance companies that lobby the states to not allow portability, so it's on them. Medicare would do away with this

You're confused - "portability" in the health debate refers to the a proposed ability of employees to take their health coverage from one company to the next. Yes, OF COURSE it's insurance companies who want to limit interstate competition, but they can only do that with the collaboration of state >>GOVERNMENTS<<.

5-India has promised patent infringment reform, like you I'll believe it when I see it. Canada is also talking reform of it's buying protocol-ditto from above

Good - to completely stop the parasitism of socialist rationing systems off the US system, medical tourism from canada should be prohibited.

6-Congress, mainly Dems, just voted in a strengthening of the Hyde amendment with the health bill last year, what more do you want?

Absolutely false - you don't know what you're talking about. They didn't "strengthen" the Hyde amendment. Among the provisions in the obozocare law is section 1303 which allows tax credit subsidies for plans that include abortion, and the creation of multi-state plans that include abortion coverage in Sec. 1334, and it increases funding for community health centers in Sec. 10503 without any abortion funding restrictions.

To stop all this, pro-life democrat Stupak offered a clear amendment to the bill that would prevent any end-runs around the hyde amendment, but of course Reid refused to bring it to a vote in the senate. Obozo resolved the issue by promising an executive order (which he did issue) but which can be (and will be) rescinded at any time.

7-health care is expensive because the insurance companies have to sell stocks and compete with each other,

Competition RAISES costs?? Whaaaaaaaaattttttttt??????????

sweetheart deals made with big pharma drove up the cost of drugs,

Sweetheart deals between whom and whom? What are you talking about??

8-Food, I saved this one for last. The food industry is just about the most heavily regulated industries in the US, this includes price controls, crop subsidies, inspection, logistics and licensing (I have a dairy weighing and sampling license)

It's nothing comparable to what socialists want for healthcare - nobody will cut off your food supply, nobody sets the prices you pay, nobody forces you into "exchanges", nobody tells you what you can and can't buy - your comparison is specious and silly.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Curses, foiled again!

This is a perfect example of the the left throwing a whole bunch of "B.S." against the wall, and hoping that at least some of it sticks.

All any intelligent person (like Rick) has to do is break down the B.S. into it's individual parts, and rip each one apart with FACTS.

It's so easy to do. Like shooting fish in a barrel.