Its offical I think I have made my choice for President this year

[Mr.Dysfunctional]

I know that its a good stragedy to minamize "colateral damage" ((SP? big time)) but isn't that completely defeating the fact that we actually want legislation to go thru unhampered by competent people who we actually trust and care about. Again it is not answering the basic fundamental of my question. Maybe I am phrasing this wrong ... Why is it Americans sit by pasifictly as the media and hyper inflated poltical egos keep turning out courpted garbage upon courpted garbage. Everyone of your posts I have read from ALL sides of the arguements point out intelligence and understanding of the situation. The only problem again comes back to we are given piss poor choices on who to vote for.. Isn't there something else we can do short of a revolt to change the status quo back to the people the government was meant to serve.

I know that its probably just a loaded question.. with no simple possibility for an easy answer... but besides voting republican into whitehouse and keeping democrats in congress... isn't their anything else simple Americans can do? I find it appaulling that bringing up these issues earns you a snide look in public. Not only that but it seems to me most people could care less that. Actually that gives me an idea for a thread !!! awesome.. please all you hopeful Debaters share your "IMO" on the thread I'm gonna write )))))

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Honestly I am just a Laymen in the context of politics.. but I honestly think i represent a majority of the people out there who are literally being impaled by the fence. How can you make a logical choice when both nominees are completely illogical for the job? It seems to me a lose-lose situation. Is this really caused by the general population's ignorance of politics in general.

To a layman looking it up.. it's no wonder people take in the extraordinary claims of conspirasy theroists and those who claim the entire nomination process is a farce. Politics aside... if we continue this course of politcals as usual.. aren't we looking at a literal meltdown of our economy... From what I have heard from both sides... all I hear is "spend spend spend .. ahh ****, thats not fixing it ?!?! SPEND MORE DAMN IT .. MORRREEE!!!!!!!" wouldn't this further the inflation already happening ?!?! The more I see these forums pick holes in canadaites.. the more I realize we are doomed regardless of who's elected. I see Obama as a hypocritcal marxist who will bring America into socialism. Or McCain and his hard-liner additude that will ramp us right into WW3.

I really don't want to be a doom-sayer.. but am I so wrong looking at things in this light?

personaly I think both choices are great improvements over the last 8 years, and while flawed they are human...if you wanted to elect superman then your going to have a long wait.

 

[Sihouette]

How can you make a logical choice when both nominees are completely illogical for the job? It seems to me a lose-lose situation.

There is one remedy. The Democratic convention in Denver and the superdelegate vote. Clinton carved the strongest economy in US history by brow-beating neocons back and dispersing jobs and opportunities to the middle and lower classes. Guess what? It worked; like a charm.

Not one pundit on either side will seriously debate that Hillary Clinton can unify for a landslide. Not one can look you in the eye and say that isn't the case.

So why then is a more unqualified, inexperienced man who was losing steam at the end of the primaries "set" to nudge her out for a certain lose in the Fall (see Sinclair story)?

It goes beyond weird and into conspiracy-theory territory. Why would normally functioning adult people vote for one of two candidates that will assure an almost-certainly-will-lose candidate over a certain-landslide-win candidate for "their" (see: presiding "dem" pro-life catholic Obama-supporting Governor Ritter of Colorado) party? If we saw behavior like this in the wild with animals, we would put them down for having rabies..

The GOP sets The Obama Trap..

 

[top gun]

The only time paygo has ever worked was when we had Clinton as president and republicans controlling both houses of congress.

If democrats actually win it all, they will give lip service to paygo, but won't follow through on it.

Since the only choice we seem to be given is "tax and spend" or "borrow and spend", I feel that tax and spend is a more fiscally responsible policy. I certainly don't believe tax and spend is fiscally responsible in any absolute sense. Just more responsible than borrow and spend.

How in the world did our two party system give us a choice between two such irresponsible approaches?

No I think we can have some confidence that the Dems will go back to paygo and really work on the deficit again.

Remember they were shut out of the White House by a complete and utter idiot for two terms. They will definitely want to build something here.

And you're right in a lot of cases government spends to much. The problem is the pubbies don't want to cut all their many corporate welfare schemes... like to record profit Big Oil and the like... and the Dems have a lot the smaller mostly social type programs that add up as well.

Pay for a moderate military, Social Security, a very time limited Welfare system and some improvement in our Healthcare system and most of the rest of the stuff throw back to the states. It won't really change all that much because then the individual states will just tax more but there would be more local control.

This "BORROW & SPEND" Republican way of doing things is as bad as it gets we can definitely do better than their train wreck!