you got me curious about just what law he broke. im sure there must be one just dont know what it is.
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NSA Leaker Revealed: Edward Snowden
- Thread starter Cruella
- Start date
you got me curious about just what law he broke. im sure there must be one just dont know what it is.
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steveox
Well-Known Member
Edward Snowden is in China. You think the Chinese would cooperate and give Edward Snowden to US authorities after British refused to turn over Julian Assange to American authorities?
Texas_tea
Well-Known Member
One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
Martin Luther King, Jr
Martin Luther King, Jr
There are some laws written to allow for violation when following them would result in illegal activity. kinda why i wondered which law he is seen as violating. For example soldiers can just say no to orders that represent illegal acts.
Centrehalf
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If Snowden has anything else to release he'd better do it now because once he's in custody, and he will be, he's going into a black hole.
I think Snowden did the right thing. I admit I haven't checked but I'd be willing to bet that everything or almost everything Snowden leaked has already been on the Internet. By releasing official US documents to a reputable media outlet he took the info out of the realm of "conspiracy theory" and for that reason alone it was the right thing to do. Oh, and he will go to jail anyway.
Hopefully now that this is out there we can have a national discussion about what our government should be doing. I have a couple of observations:
1) Some in our government have said that what the NSA is doing is legal. My response is so f'ing what? No tyrant has ever broken the laws of their respective nations.
2) Some have said that once something is out on the Internet it's public and therefore fair game. My response is to a point. If you post something to Facebook or HOP then yes, once it's posted it's public, it's the same as writing a letter and then tacking it up on a bulletin board in the town square. However, that's not all our government is doing. They are also doing the equivalent of breaking into your home and reading letters you've put in a desk drawer, and breaking into a USPS truck and then picking out your letter to see who you're writing to. I suspect they're doing even more than that but there's no evidence of that yet so I'll leave that for a later date.
I think Snowden did the right thing. I admit I haven't checked but I'd be willing to bet that everything or almost everything Snowden leaked has already been on the Internet. By releasing official US documents to a reputable media outlet he took the info out of the realm of "conspiracy theory" and for that reason alone it was the right thing to do. Oh, and he will go to jail anyway.
Hopefully now that this is out there we can have a national discussion about what our government should be doing. I have a couple of observations:
1) Some in our government have said that what the NSA is doing is legal. My response is so f'ing what? No tyrant has ever broken the laws of their respective nations.
2) Some have said that once something is out on the Internet it's public and therefore fair game. My response is to a point. If you post something to Facebook or HOP then yes, once it's posted it's public, it's the same as writing a letter and then tacking it up on a bulletin board in the town square. However, that's not all our government is doing. They are also doing the equivalent of breaking into your home and reading letters you've put in a desk drawer, and breaking into a USPS truck and then picking out your letter to see who you're writing to. I suspect they're doing even more than that but there's no evidence of that yet so I'll leave that for a later date.
Cruella
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We don't know what the real story about Snowden is yet.
The Guardian has come out and said they have a lot more information they will be releasing.....over time.
This morning a FOX interview with someone in the NSA said that getting access to this information is not as easy as Snowden said (he was a contractor in a small satellite office in HI). The NSA has his doubts about Snowden, as he also said that Snowden procured The Guardian before he even went to work for the contractor. (He was only with them three months).
Another curious thing about Snowden's interview, was he mentioned a "Partner". He's not gay and talked about leaving his girlfriend in HI. So is Snowden acting with someone else? If he did go to the Guardian ahead of time, he may be doing this for other reasons, or maybe he is nuts.
I've heard of cops becoming so paranoid by their jobs, that they are relieved from duty. Maybe something weird happens to these spy guys too. Snowden did work for the CIA at one point.
The Guardian has come out and said they have a lot more information they will be releasing.....over time.
This morning a FOX interview with someone in the NSA said that getting access to this information is not as easy as Snowden said (he was a contractor in a small satellite office in HI). The NSA has his doubts about Snowden, as he also said that Snowden procured The Guardian before he even went to work for the contractor. (He was only with them three months).
Another curious thing about Snowden's interview, was he mentioned a "Partner". He's not gay and talked about leaving his girlfriend in HI. So is Snowden acting with someone else? If he did go to the Guardian ahead of time, he may be doing this for other reasons, or maybe he is nuts.
I've heard of cops becoming so paranoid by their jobs, that they are relieved from duty. Maybe something weird happens to these spy guys too. Snowden did work for the CIA at one point.
steveox
Well-Known Member
And Osama Bin Laden worked for the CIA too
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/24198
http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/24198
Centrehalf
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I don't really know anything about Snowden's motivation or background, if the CIA link is true that's interesting. The only thing I really care about is whether or not the info is legit and according to some in our government, it is.
18 USC § 798
The problem. The government spies on us. This is not "with cause" spying. This is just downright big brother type of stuff.
Essentially all the government has to show is that you are responsible for any type of "terroristic" threat- that speech is not protected. Therefore you and anyone you contact are now eaves dropping targets. So when Kenny over at Knuckledraggin says, "Screw Obama!" some government pinhead can say that Kenny has threatened the Prez and he is a potential terrorist. His communication and anyone reading it all become susceptible to eavesdropping or other intercepted speech. Farfetched? Not at all.
This is the NSA whistleblower. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance
I am a proud member of the disposable class. Translated more accurately, this means that I have nothing to lose while speaking my truth. In other words- I am liable to say anything I want at any moment.
That's why I started writing. What I didn't understand, and that's the naivete' of people like me, is that our society is so fractured and fragmented that we can't even agree on the basics. For instance, I assumed (incorrectly, obviously) that most people understood that the amendments to the Constitution were not fucking suggestions. They were placed there specifically- to avoid the death and destruction that would occur when some future governance tried to take them away. It was our job as citizens and patriots to protect them for future generations. We have, IMO, a guardian role.
Not true. Most would be guardians are unaware of the assignment.
People all over the internet gave a collective sigh to our government this week- a government which accesses and seizes any communication that they so desire- and does not have to employ due process, procedure, nor do they even have to tell you that they seized your information. No receipt or inventory- not even a note from those people that take your money every month.
That government routinely breaks any law that applies to us- is not a mystery. What is a mystery to me is the non-chalance and apathy of an American people that seemingly do not care.
The government has broken no law in regards to what we know about how these programs are being operated. What laws exactly do you allege have been violated?>
The government is not spying on you.
In fact that is quite far fetched. And it is entirely not factual that any of these programs are "spying" on American citizens without probable cause and a court order to do so.
The 4th amendment protects the contents of your conservation without just cause -- but arguably does not protect the simple fact of the conversation. That is all that is being collected currently on the phone end of things.
They have not broken any law -- and your characterization of what is occuring is entirely false.
Gipper
Well-Known Member
Then it is apparent you do not believe the Constitution is the law of the land.
Forth Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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The NSA is operating under Judicial oversight, and has a court order to collect (for a limited period of time) the metadata surrounding these phone calls. This does not apply to collecting names, address, or content of these calls. The 4th amendment rightly protects us against unreasonable searches, and would in this case protect the content of our phone calls...but it does not protect the simple fact that the call exists.
That would be akin to arguing that if the police know you have evidence that would basically confess to a crime, but have yet to get a warrant to come get it, that they are somehow violating your 4th amendment right. The 4th amendment protects our content from unreasonable searches and seizures, and nothing that the current program is doing is collecting this content, or assigning our names, addresses etc to the simple fact that a call exists.
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