1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Discuss politics - join our community by registering for free here! HOP - the political discussion forum

Obama and Liberal Media Lie

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by asur, Apr 21, 2009.

  1. asur

    asur New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    1,100
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Obama and his dishonest associates say there are glimmers of hope and positive signs in this economy.

    They are so wrong.
    Does anybody disagree?

    It's going to get downright nasty in the US eventually.
    More real jobs are being lost everyday.

    Once Obama starts taxing the working class and businesses,
    it's gonna get worse. Consider what happened after
    the minimum wage was raised recently. Jobs started to disappear quickly.
    More taxes will have the same results.


    Obama is just bad for jobs.
     
  2. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Messages:
    11,790
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The people's republic of Eugene



    Oregon has a very high min wage and guess what?

    We only have one state in the union that has more jobless than we do. Michigan. Interesting fact is both states are run by hard core Dems. I can’t speak for Michigan but Oregon drives out business as fast as it can unless it’s "green"

    We are full of natural resources that we can’t touch, its better to let the people suffer than let them have a job I suppose.
     
  3. samsara15

    samsara15 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2007
    Messages:
    967
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Moonbase 2B
    I see signs of hope in the economy. I hope it will get better. Do some of you hope it does not? Do you Conservatives hate America that much? Jobs were lost because of failed Conservative economic beliefs.
     
  4. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Messages:
    11,790
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The people's republic of Eugene
    There is no conservative in the government of Oregon and we are second worst. I doubt there is a single conservative in Michigan either yet they are the absolute worst.

    Please explain to me how places that are very conservative are doing better and places that are liberal hell holes like Oregon are doing so badly?
     
  5. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Messages:
    11,790
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The people's republic of Eugene

    I know of no conservative who hates America, we dont burn the flag or hang it upsside down or step on it, we dont riot in the streets, when we get together its very peaceful.

    I dont know or care where you are but if your state is doing better great, because mine is getting worse and worse and worse and worse every single frakin day and it has for the last two years.
     
  6. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,497
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I don't hate America at all. I hate socialism. If I have to choose between socialism or freedom, I'll choose freedom even if it means going through a recession to get to freedom. Freedom is worth sacrificing for.

    No, jobs were not lost because of conservative economic beliefs. That statement shows you don't know what happened.

    Let's review.

    Government forced banks to give sub prime loans through the Community Reinvestment Act, in the name of minority home ownership.

    The result was a major shift in the housing markets, and huge investments in bad loans. It ended in a huge on going recession.

    Conservatism rejects government intervention. So government intervention forcing sub prime loans... is not conservatism. That's socialism. The theory government can make things better through legislation.

    In short Socialism failed us. Which is why we need to reject more Obama supported socialism.

    BTW, my company is dead in the water right now. Not seeing this major turn around coming.
     
  7. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,776
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Horse Country
    The economy will improve. It always does. Equalibrium demands that it will.

    It will improve despite P Obama hurting it further. It suffered in past because of Bush but also because of Clinton and all the congresses that have tinkered with it for the last x years.

    It will rise again but it will not look the same and there will be suffering in the mean time.

    Even if congress, et al. had not messed with it, it would have changed. But it would have been more efficient and less painful. The changes that happened would have happened because just like water takes the easiest path running down a window productive economic activity increases and unproductive activity decreases - that is until politicians get involved. Then windmills get subsidised and recycling programs become the norm, as much of a norm as paying off big corporations for campaign contributions.
     
  8. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    7,829
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    B.S.!!!

    When & where????

    :rolleyes:
     
  9. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    7,829
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Save your breath. They enjoy being miserable.....pretty-much the same way other depressed-people cut themselves.

    :rolleyes:

     
  10. TVoffBrainOn

    TVoffBrainOn Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Messages:
    313
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Let's educate:

    Almost 50% of subprime loans came from independent mortgage companies not covered by the CRA. While another 30% came from only partially regulated CRA bank subsidiaries and affiliates.

    Banks fully regulated by the CRA made approximately 1 out of every 4 subprime loans. While the worst abuses came from institutions with least federal oversight.

    A 2008 study by Traiger & Hinckley LLP, a law firm that counsels financial institutions on CRA compliance, found that CRA regulated institutions were less likely to make subprime loans, and when they did the interest rates were lower. CRA banks were also half as likely to resell the loans.
     
  11. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,776
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Horse Country
    I used to be a loan officer for one of these independent mortgage companies and I can tell you there was enough regulation to make sure that subprime loans were given freely to people with little ability to pay them back just like the regulation demanded. The industry standard computer program for filling in the data about each and every loan contained a whole section about the race of the applicant for "government recording purposes" and each and every loan fit the same molds of income to debt ratios or "no doc" loans, etc.

    I can also state that every single loan we made was only made with the understanding that it was going to be sold to a regular bank and was approved by that regular bank before we even made the deal so you can be sure that whatever regulation they had to obey was going to effect loans from us as well.

    There is virtually no difference between a loan from a broker and then sold to a bank and one from a bank. (except that loans from a broker included a line telling the borrower how much commission the broker made and when a borrower got a loan from a bank they had no idea how much profit the banker made)
     
  12. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,497
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Although I don't have personal experience with the recent minimum wage increase, I do have past experience with to increases. Back when I was in high school, I worked at a Wendy's when a minimum wage increase hit.

    It did two things. First one of the employees had just gotten a raise. Now everyone got the raise. This pissed off that employee, because while they had worked hard to earn a raise, now everyone got the same raise, even though most of them were lazy slobs.

    Second, we had to increase the cost of food, and reduce workers. We laid off a couple of part time employees, and the price across the menu increased.

    Point: In that case minimum wage simply increased the cost of food, and killed employee moral, while reducing jobs.

    The next time, was years later I worked at a car dealership while I went to college. I was lucky in that the business instructor at the college, was in fact my boss at the car dealership.

    One of the interesting factoids that came out in class was that the dealership had previously always had 4 apprenticeships going on. One for heavy engine repair, one for body shop, one for paint both, and one for general line mechanic. These apprenticeship positions were highly sought after for those needing a way to get into the businesses when they were unskilled.

    In class, it was explained in class that the dealership had reduced the apprentice program to two positions, specifically because the minimum wage made it too costly to have more than that.

    Point: two people every year since then, have been unable to get apprenticeships at that dealership, due exclusively to minimum wage laws.

    Bottom line, there is an undeniable negative impact to the minimum wage. Nearly anyone that really studies it, knows this to be true.

    France has some of the highest minimum wage laws, and the strongest worker rights laws, and has always had near double digit unemployment.
    http://indexmundi.com/france/unemployment_rate.html

    Only recently has it dropped to 8%, and that's only because the government has been slowly reducing wage controls, and work benefit rights.
     
  13. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,776
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Horse Country
    Re: min wage.

    There are millions of disabled Americans all across this country who find it extremely difficult to find jobs. Many of these people are mentally retarded and have multiple other disabilities as well. Most of them live in special facilities for people with developmental disabilities. They are also the number one user of government programs like medicaid and SSDI - as it should be.

    What just about all of these men and women share is that they want to be productive members of society and have jobs. But most of them are not able to perform work at a level that is competitive enough to be employed at regular wages. The few who are able to get jobs can usually be seen as baggers at food stores. They are often not as productive even at bagging as non-disabled workers but the stores probably consider it to be a civic duty to hire them. Bravo for these stores!

    Others work in sheltered workshops or other facilities where they have a special license from the department of labor to pay less than minimum wages. Again they are very happy just to have a job even if it pays less than minimum wage. Many of the disabled people I have known who did this worked stuffing envelopes with mailers. They were paid in a completely fair way based on how many envelopes they were able to stuff compared to how many envelopes a minimum wage worker would stuff. Even if they only made a dollar an hour it was productive work and helped them to feel that they were important. Without sub-minimum wage licenses they would not be employed at all and they would be 100% dependent on medicaid. With it some earned a few hundred dollars a month and reduced dependence on tax payer aid.

    But they are the worst hit by minimum wage laws. When a company has hired a disabled worker and they are sure they are not making a profit or are unsure if they are making a profit by hiring that person when wages go up these people sometimes go out.

    Without minimum wage laws all of these people could be employed in positions in the community and not just a tiny few as baggers or hidden away in sheltered workshops. A lack of minimum wage laws would not harm workers who are worth more than what the minimum wage is at all. But it would allow workers who can only perform at a level worth a few dollars to have a real job out in the community. A developmentally disabled person working for two dollars per hour and still getting a smaller check from medicaid or SSDI would be far betrer off than with minimum wage laws. The rest of society would be better off when all people are included in mainstream life instead of being hidden away. Employers would benefit when they could hire a person to do a job that only makes sense to pay a few dollars per hour for. And all taxpayers would benefit as welfare programs were reduced greatly.

    We always hear the myth about minimum wage not being enough to support a family. But honestly what man who is capable of having a family is not capable of working a job that pays more than minimum wage? The family breadwinner is always capable of earning more than minimum wage. The real purpose of minimum wage laws is not to make sure that people can support a family by earning mim wage. The real purpose is to let unions have an argument to raise the wages of all workers. It is an artificial argument that all of us pay for but only the 12 percent or so of the population that belongs to unions benefit from. Which is of course why it is a democrat issue alone.
     
Loading...

Share This Page