School shooter in Connecticut

[dogtowner]

Yet another example.

When someone goes crazy and starts killing people, it's not a right vs left issue. It's a crazy vs sane issue if anything. passing stricter gun laws isn't going to work. It's already illegal to go and start shooting people.

what do we do to prevent this sort of thing? I have no answers to that question, mind you. Do you?

I heard early reports that this guy was known to be mental, had been in custody before.
Our crazy korean in Blacksberg who went crazy on Virginia Tech was a known psycho.

there was much huffing and puffing here about closing the cracks he fell through. "action" was aken, somehow I don't think it amounted to anything.

you have to make the sane criminally responsible for failing to manage the crazy. if some shrink knew he would be the one in prison for life when one of his locos went postal I bet that there would be one of two reactions:

a) a whole lot of crazies will be swept up off the streets
b) a whole lot of medicos would be leaving the field

maybe both.

there was a reason crazy people were institutionalized in the bad old days. they were crazy and were not going to get un-crazy.

 

[dogtowner]

You got that one right.

You got that one right.

I just see red when people double down on uselessness when something as horrific as this happens while they ignore the cause.

 

[PLC1]

I heard early reports that this guy was known to be mental, had been in custody before.
Our crazy korean in Blacksberg who went crazy on Virginia Tech was a known psycho.

there was much huffing and puffing here about closing the cracks he fell through. "action" was aken, somehow I don't think it amounted to anything.

you have to make the sane criminally responsible for failing to manage the crazy. if some shrink knew he would be the one in prison for life when one of his locos went postal I bet that there would be one of two reactions:

a) a whole lot of crazies will be swept up off the streets
b) a whole lot of medicos would be leaving the field

maybe both.

there was a reason crazy people were institutionalized in the bad old days. they were crazy and were not going to get un-crazy.

Unfortunately, both. No one would want to be a psychiatrist working with potentially dangerous people.

 

[dogtowner]

Unfortunately, both. No one would want to be a psychiatrist working with potentially dangerous people.

perhaps. but it might be liberating to know that its OK to not drug them up and hope nothing bad happens when you can just keep them locked away.

but this causes politicians heartburn as they could not force docs to release people who should not be released and will have to spend tax dollars on something that buys NO votes.

but if they did then maybe just maybe they could see their way clear to spend tax dollars on other non-vote buying efforts like keeping the infrastructure in good order.

I know... crazy talk. better lock my ass up !

 

[PLC1]

perhaps. but it might be liberating to know that its OK to not drug them up and hope nothing bad happens when you can just keep them locked away.

but this causes politicians heartburn as they could not force docs to release people who should not be released and will have to spend tax dollars on something that buys NO votes.

but if they did then maybe just maybe they could see their way clear to spend tax dollars on other non-vote buying efforts like keeping the infrastructure in good order.

I know... crazy talk. better lock my ass up !

Really. Spending tax money on infrastructure and locking the nutcases up? Spending money on things that don't buy votes? Next, you'll be saying that they shouldn't be spending money that they don't have!

 

[dogtowner]

Really. Spending tax money on infrastructure and locking the nutcases up? Spending money on things that don't buy votes? Next, you'll be saying that they shouldn't be spending money that they don't have!

GET OUTTA MY HEAD !!!!!!!

but seriously...

my heart aches this day.

God please send grace to us all to deal with this incomprehensible evil and the loss it has caused.
Keep us constantly mindful that evil lives among us all and we have to fight it with all our ability all the time.

 

[Rafael Norma]

Veintisiete personas muertas en un tiroteo en Connecticut, incluyendo 20 NIÑOS

http://tinyurl.com/c77z8gv

Luke Sharrett for The New York Times
El Presidente Obama se enjuga una lágrima durante la declaración en la Casa Blanca, en donde abordó el tiroteo en una escuela primaria en Newtown, Conn.


Escrito por JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN y WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM
Publicado por The New York Times el 14 de diciembre de 2012


Traducido por Rafael Norma Méndez

Un pistolero acribilló a 27 personas, incluyendo a 20 infantes de edades entre los 5 y los 10 años, en un tiroteo este viernes por la mañana en una escuela primaria en Newtown, Conn., aproximadamente ea 65 millas al noreste de la Ciudad de Nueva York, según dijeron las autoridades.

Enlarge This Image

Jessica Hill/Associated Press

Una mujer esperó a oir sobre su hermana, una maestra, este viernes después de un tiroteo masivo en la escuela primaria Sandy Hook en Newtown, Conn.

El francotirador, quien se cree que tiene 20 años, entró en un salón de clases en la Escuela Primaria Sandy Hook, donde su madre era maestra. Le disparó y la mató y luego le disparó a 20 estudiantes más, en el mismo salón de clases. También disparó contra cinco otros adultos, y luego se suicidó en el interior de la escuela..

Otro cadáver relacionado al tiroteo, estaba en otor lugar, según dijeron las autoridades, decilinando dar mayor información.

Un oficial policíaco, identificó al pistolero como Adam Lanza y dijo que habían interrogado a su hermano, Ryan Lanza.

Este tiroteo masivo es una de las peores en la historia de la nación.

"La mayoría de los fallecidos eran niños de hoy en día, hermosos niños pequeños entre las edades de 5 y 10 años", dijo el presidente Obama, visiblemente consternado, durante un discurso televisado a nivel nacional esta tarde de viernes.

Después de hacer una pausa para recobrar la compostura por unos cinco segundos de duración, el Presidente Obama dijo: "Tenían toda la vida por delante de ellos:. Cumpleaños, graduaciones, bodas, niños de su propia"

A continuación, el presidente se limpió la comisura de su ojo.

Algunos testigos describieron una escena terrible dentro de la escuela con los sonidos de disparos seguidos de gritos.

Un alumno de 9 años de edad, dijo que estaba en el gimnasio cuando estalló el tiroteo.

“Estábamos en el gimnasio, y oí golpes muy fuertes", dijo el muchacho, mientras permanecía de pie temblando y llorando fuera de la escuela envuelto en los brazos de su padre. "Pensamos que alguien estaba golpeando algo más. Y oímos gritos, y disparos, un montón de disparos. Hemos escuchado a alguien decir: “¡Arriba las manos! y "No disparen". Tuvimos que ir al closet del gimnasio. Entonces alguien vino y nos dijo que corrieramos por el pasillo. Había policías en cada puerta. Había un montón de gente llorando y gritando.

Otro estudiante de la escuela le dijo a una afiliada de NBC en Connecticut: "Estaba en el gimnasio y oí como siete tiros, y los profesores de gimnasia nos dijeron que nos fueramos a la esquina y nos acurrucamos. Todos escuchamos esos disparos y comenzamos a llorar. Así, los profesores de gimnasia nos dijo que fuéramos a la oficina donde nadie nos pudiera encontrar. Entonces un oficial de policía nos dijo que corriéramos hacia afuera ".

La policía Estatal dijo que la policía de Newtown los llamó poco después de las 9:30 a.m., según el teniente J. Paul Vance de la policía estatal de Connecticut. “soldados en servicio y fuera de servicio respondieron a la llamada de la escuela, y con la policía de Newtown entraron a la escuela y empezaron a buscar al francotirador,” dijo el Teniente Vance..

Fueron declarados fallecidos 18 de los estudiantes d ela esuela, y dos otros fueron levados al hospital en donde se les declaró falledi¡cidos Todos los demás adultos que recibieron disparos fueron declarados muertos en la escena.

Meredith Artley, la editora general de CNN.com, dijo que alguien que trabaja en la escuela le dijo que el tiroteo ocurrió en el pasillo. "lo describió como un tiroteo", dijo la Sra. Artley. "Ella dijo que tres personas salieron al pasillo y sólo una persona regresó, el subdirector, dijo, que recibió un disparo en la pierna o el pie, que venía arrastrándose de regreso. Ella se acurrucó debajo de la mesa y llamó al novecientos once. Nunca vio el tiroteo. Debe haber habido un centenar de tiros ".

El Presidente Obama fue informado sobre el tiroteo a las 10:30 a.m., dijo la Casa Blanca.
"Hemos soportado muchas de estas tragedias en los últimos años y cada vez que me entero de estas noticias, no reacciono como presidente, sino como nada más lo haría un padre y esto es especialmente cierto hoy en día", dijo el Presidnete Obama este viernes por la tarde. "Sé que hay un padre en todo Estados Unidos que no se sienta el mismo dolor abrumador que yo tengo".

En un hospital cercano, Danbury Hospital, dijeron que estaban tratando a tres pacientes del tiroteo. En el hospital, el personal de bata blanca y aturdido aspecto, se veía conmocionado mientras se reunía en pequeños grupos que hablaban sobre el tiroteo. En un rincón, cerca de la tienda de regalos, una mujer consoló un colega que lloraba.

En la cafetería, algunos clientes terminaron sus emparedados en el mostrador de comidas y la cajera se secó las lágrimas de sus ojos mientras atendía a sus clientes.

Una enfermera del hospital, Maureen Kerins, que vive cerca de la escuela y después de enterarse del tiroteo por la televisión, se apresuró a ir a la escuela para ver si podía ayudar en algo. “Me quedé fuera esperando para entrar, pero un oficial de policía salió y dijo que no necesitaban ninguna enfermera, así que supe que nada bueno había acontecido'', dijo la Sra. Kerins.

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Shannon Hicks/The Newtown Bee

La policía estatal conduce a los niños hacia fuera de la Escuela Primaria Sandy Hook en Newtown, Connecticut, después la información sobre un tiroteo.
.
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Michelle Mcloughlin/Reuters

Los niños esperaron afuera de la Escuela Primaria Sandy Hook después del tiroteo de éste viernes en Newtown, Connecticut

El gobernador Dannel P. Malloy llegó a la escena del tiroteo en la tarde de este viernes.

La escuela, situada entre colinas boscosas y las vías suburbanas del condado de Fairfield, a 12 millas al este de Danbury, que sirve de kindergarten hasta cuarto grado. La escuela tiene aproximadamente 700 estudiantes.


"Es sólo una pequeña escuela de este país'', dijo Robert Place, de 65 años, mientras permanecía de pie cerca de la escena. "El aspecto es muy años 50 o 60. De un piso. Siempre tenía una buena reputación. La gente viene a Newtown a las escuelas''.

La directora de la escuela, Dawn Hochsprung,habría sido uno de los fusiladas. Pero en la casa de su hija Cristina Hassinger, en Oakville, Connecticut, la familia sigue esperando noticias de su destino.

"Estamos buscando cualquier esperanza", dijo Ryan Hassinger, el hijo-en-ley de la directora. "Si ella está en el hospital, cualquier oportunidad es la mejor."[/o]

Dijo que su esposa, Cristina, de 28 años, y "su hermana están ahí ahora", con policías del estado de Connecticut, y que él y otros familiares estaban esperando información noticiosa.

"Miré en Twitter y dice que ella ha fallecido", dijo el Sr. Hassinger. Sin embargo, agregó, la familia estaba "con esperanzas.

Frente a un centro de ancianos al lado de la escuela, una mujer de 20 años de edad, estaba con su hijita de 4 años de edad, quien estaba en la escuela al momento de los disparos. La mujer vino a recoger a su hermana menor junto con su madre. La niña tenía los brazos y las piernas abrazando a su hermana mayor.

Cuando un periodista le preguntó a la mujer lo que la niña sabía lo que había ocurrido, la mujer dijo: "Absolutamente nada, y no le voy a decir nada."


El reportaje fue aportado por Peter Applebome, Davey Robert, Creador y Elizabeth Kristin Hussey Zisson de Connecticut, y Baker Al, Andy Newman, Jennifer Preston Wendy Ruderman y de Nueva York.

@RafaelNorma

@TheDemocrats/@GOP Los U.S.uarios de drogas y de armas de destrucción masiva viviendo su catástrofe diaria: http://tinyurl.com/cb4z5f2 @hrw @NRA

 

[TheJPRD]

I have no answers to that question, mind you. Do you?

I have an answer. It isn't a 100% fix, but it would end 85% of such incidents within 30 years. The modern phenomena represented by Columbine, Virginia Tech, the Aurora theatre murders, Newtown, etc. result from (1) a breakdown in societal norms of morality/behavior, (2) the undoing of parental rights, (3) a lack of proper child discipline and self-control, (4) the emasculation of American males, (5) the destruction of individualism and exceptionalism, (6) the societal-enforcement of insane political correctness, and (7) an unspoken disrespect for life represented largely by abortion!

In other words, we must get off this "moral-equivalency" and "politcal-correctness" garbage, and get back to basics! We can teach GOOD morals in our schools as easily and more effectively than we teach the proper use of condoms, the proper words to use when describing a person who breaks our immigration laws, the historical misbehavior of the white race, the despicable behavior of males throughout history, the theft of Hispanic lands by Europeans (nevermind that Hispanics ARE Europeans and stole the land in the first place) etc. etc. etc. Our children aren't stupid!!! They'll listen to all that garbage, they'll pretend to behave accordingly, but they lose ALL respect for our wimpy, disingenuous society and the idiots that shove that bs down their throats! If we can teach "garbage" in our schools and homes, we can teach morality and norms of societal behavior that is worthy of our great nation!

 

[GenSeneca]

what do we do to prevent this sort of thing? I have no answers to that question, mind you. Do you?

Schools are "Gun Free" zones... This elementary school, Virginia Tech, Columbine and probably more I'm forgetting... Point is, you'll never hear about a mass shooting at an NRA convention, the shooting range, or a gun show. Mass shooters may be insane, but they aren't crazy... They'll always choose the victims who have been legally disarmed, they can't shoot back.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Obviously easy access to guns had nothing to do with this tragedy

And we must remember that the right to bear arms is much more important than seeking to ban them and make this kind of tragedy far less likely

Guns don't kill people

Bullets do

 

[Hobo1]

I spend time in Indonesia and it is interesting to observe the number of instances where people are killed with knives. Guns are outlawed, but a quick slit of the throat is just as effective. Granted it is fairly uncommon to see a mass murder using knives (like happened in China today).

On the other hand, mass murders with guns are generally attributed to people with severe mental problems. In Indonesia, killing with a knife is an accepted part of the culture under certain circumstances. Catching your wife in bed with another man is one "crime" where the husband may be sentenced to jail for 1 year for slicing throat of your wife's lover.

I am just echoing the point made earlier ... the gun or the knife is only a means to an end. Until we can understand the twisted mental condition that causes someone to commit mass murder, we can't hope control the problem.

There has been tremendous progress in the last 20 years to bring the brain of a menially ill person back to normal. Locking up a mental deviate and throwing away the key (or heavy tranquillizers) may not be necessary soon.

 

[Rafael Norma]

Obama’s Cautious Call for Action Sets Stage to Revive Gun Debate

​

“Mr. President, we are praying for your action.”​

Luke Sharrett for The New York Times​

President Obama in Washington after the shootings.
By MARK LANDLER and ERICA GOODE
Published: December 14, 2012

​

WASHINGTON — In the emotional statement on the Newtown shootings that President Obama delivered from the White House on Friday, it was a single line, spoken as much in anger as in grief, that stood out. The words were cautious and were immediately criticized for being too timid. But they may have signaled that the long-dormant debate over the nation’s gun laws is about to be re-engaged.

Multimedia


Obama on Connecticut School Shooting


Related
Gunman Massacres 20 Children at School in Connecticut (December 15, 2012)
A Gunman, Recalled as Intelligent and Shy, Who Left Few Footprints in Life (December 15, 2012)
Two Educators Are Recalled as Going the Extra Mile for Students (December 15, 2012)
Nation’s Pain Is Renewed, and Difficult Questions Are Asked Once More (December 15, 2012)
“We’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics,” Mr. Obama said, listing the devastation wrought by other gun violence, from a recent attack in an Oregon shopping mall to the shootings in a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., in July.
But Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg of New York spoke for many gun-control advocates, who have been frustrated and disappointed by Mr. Obama’s failure to embrace the issue, when he said he wanted to hear much more.
“Calling for ‘meaningful action’ is not enough. We need immediate action,” said Mr. Bloomberg, who is a leader of a group of mayors against illegal gun ownership.
“We have heard all the rhetoric before,” Mr. Bloomberg added. “What we have not seen is leadership — not from the White House and not from Congress. That must end today.”
White House officials professed not to know what Mr. Obama’s pledge for “meaningful action” meant. But given Mr. Obama’s methodical style, the words were not likely to have been chosen casually. And yet the president stopped short of detailing any new initiatives, like restrictions on high-capacity ammunition magazines or stricter bans on gun buyers with a history of mental illness.
Pressed about whether Mr. Obama would use the tragedy to fuel a new effort, the White House spokesman, Jay Carney, said the administration did not want to politicize a tragedy. “There is I’m sure — will be, rather, a day for discussion of the usual Washington policy debates, but I don’t think today is that day,” he said before Mr. Obama made his remarks.
Politics, of course, intruded almost immediately. Mr. Bloomberg’s group organized a vigil in front of the White House to demand that the president take action. On Capitol Hill, there was an outpouring of condolences and a predictably partisan split on how to respond.
Republicans and many moderate Democrats expressed their horror at the mass killing, but were either silent on a legislative response or said it was not time to talk about gun control. But liberal Democrats said it was time to move forward with serious gun laws.

“The time to talk about it should have been after the last shooting or the shooting before that,” said Representative Carolyn McCarthy, Democrat of New York, whose husband was one of six people killed in a shooting on the Long Island Rail Road in 1993.
Ms. McCarthy said she would resume her quest for broad gun violence legislation: reinstating the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004; banning high-capacity magazines; requiring criminal background checks on gun buyers at gun shows; and improving instant background checks to more thoroughly catch people with histories of mental illness.
“I’m not going to be shy anymore,” she said.
As the debate over gun control flares anew, it is likely to focus on the types of two of the guns that were found with the suspect in Connecticut, a Glock pistol and a Bushmaster .223 M4 carbine rifle, which are similar in type to the weapons used in the mass shootings in Oregon and Colorado.
Both guns are popular for target shooting and self-defense, and have been singled out by gun-control advocates because of their ability to rapidly fire multiple rounds and accommodate large magazines.

 

[Rafael Norma]

Continued...


But Republicans said tighter gun-control measures would be the wrong step.
“That’s one thing I hope doesn’t happen,” said Representative Mike Rogers, a senior Michigan Republican who is a former F.B.I. agent. “That’s certainly the lowest common denominator. What is the more realistic discussion is, how do we target people with mental illness who use firearms?”
Kristen Rand, the legislative director for the Violence Policy Center, a gun-control advocacy group, said it was too early to say whether the Newtown massacre would yield different political results than previous mass shootings, including the attack that nearly took the life of a member of Congress, Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona.

Multimedia


Obama on Connecticut School Shooting


Related
Gunman Massacres 20 Children at School in Connecticut (December 15, 2012)
A Gunman, Recalled as Intelligent and Shy, Who Left Few Footprints in Life (December 15, 2012)
Two Educators Are Recalled as Going the Extra Mile for Students (December 15, 2012)
Nation’s Pain Is Renewed, and Difficult Questions Are Asked Once More (December 15, 2012)
But she said she believes it would for two reasons: the victims were children, which has elicited a gut-wrenching response across the country, and the National Rifle Association proved to be a political paper tiger in the 2012 election.
David Chipman, a former special agent at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives who is now a consultant to Mayors Against Illegal Guns, said he believed the shooting was “a game changer.”
“The only thing that I personally experienced that was similar to this moment was the Oklahoma City bombing, where another American killed scores of people,” Mr. Chipman said of his 25-year career.
Mr. Obama advocated gun laws days after the shooting in Aurora on July 20, but he did not break new ground in proposing legislation, and he reaffirmed his belief in the constitutional rights of gun owners. In a speech to the National Urban League in New Orleans, Mr. Obama endorsed tighter restrictions to bar mentally unstable people from buying weapons. Officials say the suspect in the Newtown massacre suffered from personality disorders.
“These steps shouldn’t be controversial,” Mr. Obama said in his speech in July. “They should be common sense.”
Gun control, however, played an incidental role in the presidential campaign. And the political prospects for federal gun legislation remain bleak, analysts said, even with the national outpouring of emotion that typically follows mass killings.
Given that, some advocates said Mr. Obama should focus on steps that he could do through an executive order. Like Presidents Bill Clinton and the elder George Bush, he could ban the import of assault rifles like AK gun, which have been used in shooting massacres.
More ambitious steps could include passing national legislation to toughen background checks, which are not currently required for guns bought from unlicensed, private sellers.
As a chilly winter sun set over the White House on Friday afternoon, a small group of gun-control advocates gathered outside. A few held signs that read “Mr. President, we are praying for your action.”

 

[Rafael Norma]

Another Child’s life taker, but @USAGOV /@BarackObama/@GOP

/@TheDemocrats doesn’t care http://tinyurl.com/cdkhade

 

[Gipper]

How long before someone tries to make this tragic incident about right vs. left... oh, right. It's already happened.

Your reasoning is analogous to the following...

You wondering when your wife will have an affair. You share your wonderment with a third party (another retired p-school teacher), who concludes from your wonderment that YOU are having an affair.

The reasoning of a p-school teacher!

You should start a thread on this type of reasoning so all us can LEARN from it.