Bush Has the Last Laugh

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Not sure who are when that is in reference to. Can you be more specific? This is new information to me. Beyond that, it's widely known that OBL hated the good relationship between Saudi Arabia and the US. He considered the Saudis corrupted by the evil US, and wanted all US people barred from Saudi Arabia. It's not even remotely surprising he specifically recruited Saudis to do the 9/11 attack, and made it easy to track where they came from. It was a direct attempt to strain relations, which seems to have worked.
The reference is to our current situation in Iraq. We werent allowed to use the leased bases for our combat efforts, they refused to provide thier own troops, they did little to curtail thier citizens from crossing over the border to participate in the insurgency. Bush is nothing but an appeasor to a sponsor of terrorism.

Honestly, I don't know. I'd be open to redefining our relationship with them. However what have we provided them? If we don't buy from them, everyone else will. And if they have the lowest price, then we're just shooting our own foot off again.
We have provided them with a trillion or more dollars, in cold hard American currency. We have provided them the second best equipped military in the region. We have provided thier defense when threatened by thier neighbors. We have also provided them with political coverage and overlooked the absolute abuses and difference in values we get up in arms about when other countries do it.
I do know they offered to locate OBL for us, and Clinton nixed the offer. I also know Clinton and the Saudis were close, they give Clinton $20 Million for his Presidential Underwear Library.

I also know that Saudis do tend to go against OPEC. Not always as much, or the way we want. Incase you missed it, the Saudis did recently increase production. Likely not enough to be a huge factor... certainly not as much as Bush wanted, but they did buck OPEC again.

The Saudis are OPEC. You can rant about Clinton all you want. There is little question that in hindsight, the Clinton policy of containment of Saddam was working. Bush screwed up in Iraq so bad, I am not sure there is an American historical precedence to look at. In Vietnam it was a greater issue with communism, in Iraq it has been nothing but blood thirsty greed.
 
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The bigger question is... why in the world are we importing all this oil? There is tons... trillions, and possibly more than trillions of oil here in the US... why are we not getting it? We have forced ourselves into the imported oil global market, and now we complain about it. (wah! bush! wah! oil! wah!) Stop shooting off our own feet, and let's get our own oil. That will eliminate the whole issue.

I agree in that America needs to stand on its own and take care of itself. The more we deal with some of those money grubbing countries, the more probs that occur for us financially. They get the dough, we get the shaft.
 
The reference is to our current situation in Iraq. We werent allowed to use the leased bases for our combat efforts, they refused to provide thier own troops, they did little to curtail thier citizens from crossing over the border to participate in the insurgency. Bush is nothing but an appeasor to a sponsor of terrorism.

So you suggest that Saudis should have closed off the entire boarder... by lethal force if necessary, to stop people crossing the desert? Sort of a country wide lock down? I don't know if that's realistic. Not even sure it would be possible to lock down millions of miles of desert.

As for the leased bases, that's a good point. Perhaps we should reconsider our ties to them. I most certainly see a lack of good investment if we are pouring money into bases that we can't use on a whim. That's like renting a car and being told you can't use it Friday night. I don't think so.

But... here you suggest that Saudis are actually sponsoring activities knowingly... and that Bush knowingly is supporting them in this. That is a bit more difficult to swallow.

I do know that the Saudis gave money to terror supporting charities, but as soon as that was out, they quit. Of course many people in America did the same. So do you have some other evidence of this I don't know about?

I see some of your points... but I'm not yet making that logical leap that I see here.

We have provided them with a trillion or more dollars, in cold hard American currency. We have provided them the second best equipped military in the region. We have provided thier defense when threatened by thier neighbors. We have also provided them with political coverage and overlooked the absolute abuses and difference in values we get up in arms about when other countries do it.

I suppose I do not know enough about any of this to comment. A research project for another day. As a policy, I don't believe in foreign aid to begin with. If we provided them cash for product (oil let's say), I'm ok with this. If it was a 'here's money for the good of your country', I'm against that. If they are buying our military goods with money from Oil, that's perfectly fine with me.

The Saudis are OPEC. You can rant about Clinton all you want. There is little question that in hindsight, the Clinton policy of containment of Saddam was working. Bush screwed up in Iraq so bad, I am not sure there is an American historical precedence to look at. In Vietnam it was a greater issue with communism, in Iraq it has been nothing but blood thirsty greed.

Ok you lost me again. There was no 'rant' about Clinton. I was making a factual statement about prior policy. Further, if 'containment' equals Saddam completely skirting his conditional end of hostilities by kicking out UN inspectors and refusing to disarm while funding terrorism... that's a pretty lame version of containment. I suppose Iran is contained too then, based on that description. As far as screwed up... based on what? We freed a huge number of people from a cruel dictator that threatened our allies and us... what exactly is so horrible about that?
 
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I'm locking this thread. Such displays of juvenility have no place here. Outspoken, if you're here to debate, then debate. If you're here to surround yourself in righteous fury and curse at other posters, then your threats of leaving are not only supported by the staff but will be made mandatory if you do not calm down and post with civility.
 
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