CA. Priest call a sin to have voted for Obama

XCALIDEM

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This is something I've been saying all along....:D


McClatchy Washington Bureau
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Posted on Sun, Nov. 30, 2008

Another Catholic pastor labels voting for Obama a sin
Sue Nowicki | Modesto Bee
last updated: November 29, 2008 05:02:32 PM

Parishioners of St. Joseph's Catholic Church in Modesto have been told they should consider going to confession if they voted for Barack Obama, because of the president-elect's position condoning abortion.

"If you are one of the 54 percent of Catholics who voted for a pro-abortion candidate, you were clear on his position and you knew the gravity of the question, I urge you to go to confession before receiving communion. Don't risk losing your state of grace by receiving sacrilegiously," the Rev. Joseph Illo, pastor of St. Joseph's, wrote in a letter dated Nov. 21.

The letter was sent to more than 15,000 members of the St. Joseph's parish. It is one of 34 parishes in the Stockton Diocese, which has more than 200,000 members in Stanislaus, San Joaquin and four other counties.

Illo also delivered this message in a homily.

Obama's support of abortion rights angered many Catholics nationally during the campaign, and Illo's letter, while the first in Central California from a priest to his parishioners on the topic, is not the first nationally.

A Greenville, S.C., priest told parishioners earlier this month that those who voted for Obama risked placing themselves "outside of the full communion of Christ's church" by their vote.

That priest's action was supported by his diocese, the Diocese of Charleston, S.C., which said the priest was simply asserting church teaching.

But the Most Rev. Stephen Blaire, bishop of the Stockton, Calif., Diocese, said he disagrees with Illo. He said Catholics should not feel compelled to disclose how they voted to their priest.

Blaire said Catholics who carefully weighed many issues and settled on a candidate, such as Obama, who was supportive of abortion rights, were not in need of confession. He said confession would be necessary "only if someone voted for a pro-abortion or pro-choice candidate -- if that's the reason you voted for them."

"Our position on pro-life is very important, but there are other issues," Blaire said. "No one candidate reflects everything that we stand for. I'm sure that most Catholics who voted were voting on economic issues.

"There were probably many priests, and I suspect many bishops, who voted for Obama."

Illo's letter states, "Many Catholics voted for such pro-abortion candidates thinking that their good positions on other issues, such as the war or health care, outweighed their deplorable stand on abortion."

Illo also wrote that Obama "promised Planned Parenthood that the first thing he would do upon taking office is to sign the so-called 'Freedom of Choice Act,' which would grant unlimited access to abortion in all 50 states up until the moment of live birth."

Illo, in an interview Wednesday, explained his reasoning.

"In Catholic teaching, you have to go to confession when you have committed a mortal sin," he said. "Now, what is a mortal sin? It's somewhat complex. No one can say, 'You committed a mortal sin.' I can only say, 'It's a grave matter.' It's my job to look after my parishioners.

"I've gotten a lot of e-mails and phone calls. It's about 12-to-1 in favor of what I said. One person has left the parish. But I got all of these other positive things."

Across the country, Obama's nomination and campaign was divisive for many Catholics. Many priests and church officials sermonized against him because of his stance on abortion, as they did four years ago when Democratic John Kerry challenged President Bush. There were Catholic-inspired anti-Obama videos on YouTube regarding the issue.

In a story published in October in the Chicago Tribune, Joe Scheidler, president of the Pro-Life Action League, said it was hypocritical for any Catholic to vote for Obama -- even if they agreed with his positions on other health care topics.

"There are a lot of ways you can solve poverty and all these other issues," Scheidler said. "But abortion is the taking of a human life, and the church is very strict on that. Any involvement in abortion is not just a sin, it's an excommunicable sin. This is serious business."

Read the full story at modbee.com
 
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Pandora

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Really it would be according to the RCC

if Obama were not into the abortion thing then it would have been the sin to vote for McCain

inocent life is higher priority so because McCain was not into abortion and obama was it made (in the eyes of the RCC) voting for obama a sin

had abortion not been an issue then voting for McCain would have ended up being the sin because war/death is also frowned upon according the the RCC. but Obamas pro abortion trumped McCains war.

funny thing is though that obama got more of the catholic vote than McCain did, that shows the catholics dont take their faith very seriously...all you have to do is look in MASS to see that. they have two of the biggest pro abortion for any reason any time senators there is.
 

Sihouette

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Hmm...that's weird.

Just the other day I was thinking it is a sin to redact or suppress certain of Jesus's teachings like the Roman Catholic Church did and has been doing for centuries.

Sin is a funny thing. It even finds its ways under the robes and vestments of the scribes, bishops and popes...
 

XCALIDEM

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funny thing is though that obama got more of the catholic vote than McCain did, that shows the catholics dont take their faith very seriously...all you have to do is look in MASS to see that. they have two of the biggest pro abortion for any reason any time senators there is.

I do taKE my religion very seriously...I went to church last week. First time in 6 months...;)
 

oceanenvy

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This is something I've been saying all along....:D

It just seems ironic that there are so many issues facing the US and the world that the Church needs to be concerned about: poverty, hunger, war, lack of adequate health care, being stewards of the earth, etc.

And yet the Church seems mainly politically concerned about two issues: abortion and gay marriage. I find that strange and frankly disappointing. I can't speak for the Catholic Church, but that is not the message I gain from listening to Jesus' teachings. Personally, I think Obama took more of a position on trying to prevent poverty, environmental hazards and lack of personal health care insurance, but just because he respects a woman's reproductive rights, it's labeled as a sin to vote for him. I find that somewhat ridiculous.
 

Pandora

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It just seems ironic that there are so many issues facing the US and the world that the Church needs to be concerned about: poverty, hunger, war, lack of adequate health care, being stewards of the earth, etc.

And yet the Church seems mainly politically concerned about two issues: abortion and gay marriage. I find that strange and frankly disappointing. I can't speak for the Catholic Church, but that is not the message I gain from listening to Jesus' teachings. Personally, I think Obama took more of a position on trying to prevent poverty, environmental hazards and lack of personal health care insurance, but just because he respects a woman's reproductive rights, it's labeled as a sin to vote for him. I find that somewhat ridiculous.

The RCC and I would say most all churches take poverty seriously and hunger and all that you spoke of, they just put things in a list

1. life. Inocent lives being slaughtered daily is a huge issue that not many stand up for so they must.

the homosexual issue is random in churches, some its a big deal and others its not.

many many churches do food boxes to help the hungry, missions, they help strangers pay electric bills and things like that when they come to ask, they help the poor more than any other group out there that is isnt called government and if not for the government they would be able to help even more becuase more people would donate to them instead of being over taxed and they would have more $$ to help more people.
 

Popeye

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The RCC and I would say most all churches take poverty seriously and hunger and all that you spoke of, they just put things in a list

1. life. Inocent lives being slaughtered daily is a huge issue that not many stand up for so they must.

the homosexual issue is random in churches, some its a big deal and others its not.

many many churches do food boxes to help the hungry, missions, they help strangers pay electric bills and things like that when they come to ask, they help the poor more than any other group out there that is isnt called government and if not for the government they would be able to help even more becuase more people would donate to them instead of being over taxed and they would have more $$ to help more people.

That slaughtering of innocent life you speak of......does that include innocent civilians that are killed by American bombs and the military? And if so, does that not make those who voted for Bush, particularly in 2004, by your definition sinners as well?
 

Pandora

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That slaughtering of innocent life you speak of......does that include innocent civilians that are killed by American bombs and the military? And if so, does that not make those who voted for Bush, particularly in 2004, by your definition sinners as well?

Well Popeye I am not the one saying its a sin to vote for anyone but I think yes the RCC would say voting for Bush in 2006 was considered a sin, but less of a sin than voting for Kerry who is really big in partial birth abortion exc.

If the choices are Bush and a democrat who does not believe in war, death P. or abortion, the church would ask the people to vote for the democrat in a heart beat. its just the dem in 04 was heavy duty pro abortion and that trumps death in war


in 2000 the church went for bush because of abortion too but in that election there was no war topic to compare it to
 

BigRob

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That slaughtering of innocent life you speak of......does that include innocent civilians that are killed by American bombs and the military? And if so, does that not make those who voted for Bush, particularly in 2004, by your definition sinners as well?

Does not mean that since Saddam Hussein was slaughtering innocent life in Iraq before we invaded that it was a sin not to invade? Does that mean Clinton's inaction in Rwanda is a sin and Clinton supporters are sinners?

This goes in circles forever and basically means nothing in the scheme of things.
 

oceanenvy

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The RCC and I would say most all churches take poverty seriously and hunger and all that you spoke of, they just put things in a list

1. life. Inocent lives being slaughtered daily is a huge issue that not many stand up for so they must.

the homosexual issue is random in churches, some its a big deal and others its not.

many many churches do food boxes to help the hungry, missions, they help strangers pay electric bills and things like that when they come to ask, they help the poor more than any other group out there that is isnt called government and if not for the government they would be able to help even more becuase more people would donate to them instead of being over taxed and they would have more $$ to help more people.

I'm sorry, just my personal opinion, but I think the Roman Catholic Church's stance on birth control is NOT in keeping with trying to help prevent poverty (pr prevent abortion for that matter!). I look at places like Brazil that are so overpopulated that little 8 year-old children are left to run around in gangs and go hungry. And yet the Church still is technically against birth control. this is not compatible with a good quality of life and leads to increased global poverty. Food boxes don't make a dent in that I'm afraid.
 

XCALIDEM

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It just seems ironic that there are so many issues facing the US and the world that the Church needs to be concerned about: poverty, hunger, war, lack of adequate health care, being stewards of the earth, etc.

And yet the Church seems mainly politically concerned about two issues: abortion and gay marriage. I find that strange and frankly disappointing. I can't speak for the Catholic Church, but that is not the message I gain from listening to Jesus' teachings. Personally, I think Obama took more of a position on trying to prevent poverty, environmental hazards and lack of personal health care insurance, but just because he respects a woman's reproductive rights, it's labeled as a sin to vote for him. I find that somewhat ridiculous.

Obama hasn't done crap. You mention him as if he already accomplished all those things that you're saying...

He's pro abortion and he voted against a law that would help infants from botched abortions....
 

oceanenvy

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Obama hasn't done crap. You mention him as if he already accomplished all those things that you're saying...

He's pro abortion and he voted against a law that would help infants from botched abortions....

The sin that the priest cited was the "vote" for an individual. So, be it Obama or McCain, you would have to vote for their position on the issue of health care, poverty, war, abortion, etc.

I personally believe that Obama's position is more in keeping with the prevention of war and poverty. As for the bill on abortion you are citing, there was a whole thread devoted to why Obama voted the way he did. He was on record saying that he already felt there were laws in place that allowed for emergency care should an infant be born alive during the course of an abortion. By the way, Mccain is also on record favoring stem cell research. Shouldn't voting for him be a sin as well, considering the Catholic Church is against that?
 

Pandora

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The sin that the priest cited was the "vote" for an individual. So, be it Obama or McCain, you would have to vote for their position on the issue of health care, poverty, war, abortion, etc.

I personally believe that Obama's position is more in keeping with the prevention of war and poverty. As for the bill on abortion you are citing, there was a whole thread devoted to why Obama voted the way he did. He was on record saying that he already felt there were laws in place that allowed for emergency care should an infant be born alive during the course of an abortion. By the way, Mccain is also on record favoring stem cell research. Shouldn't voting for him be a sin as well, considering the Catholic Church is against that?

Obama is on the record saying many things about abortion, partial birth abortion and the born alive act. he tried really hard to say oh I did not vote for it because it did not have this provision, then when that provison was added he voted against it and said there is already a bill like that but in another interview said it still didnt have the provison


in the end these words from him sum up his real feeling

go to this link

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=h4d9hYFfqUc

to hear him saying that its adding another doctor burdens the original decision of the woman

this statement of his shows that all his other crappy lies about why he voted for partial birth abortion and against the born alive act 4 times were all lies.

this is how he feels just accept it
 

PLC1

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"Father forgive me for I have sinned."

"What was your sin, my child?"

"I voted for Obama."

"Say three Hail Mary's, and picket Planned Parenthood"

Just exactly what does this priest, or anyone else, think can be done to end abortion?

If it were outlawed, and forced underground, would the pro lifer's be happy? Nations that have outlawed it have just as much, or more, than we do.

There is no such thing as a "pro abortion" stance. No one is in favor of increasing the number of abortions.
 
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BigRob

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"Father forgive me for I have sinned."

"What was your sin, my child?"

"I voted for Obama."

"Say three Hail Mary's, and picket Planned Parenthood"

Just exactly what does this priest, or anyone else, think can be done to end abortion?

If it were outlawed, and forced underground, would the pro lifer's be happy? Nations that have outlawed it have just as much, or more, than we do.

There is no such thing as a "pro abortion" stance. No one is in favor of increasing the number of abortions.

This whole "forced underground" argument is ridiculous. The lawyers who tried Roe V. Wade admitted they made up stats on "backalley" abortions just to try to make their case sound better.

I sense we have had this conversation before however, so I will not take it any further.
 
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