CA. Priest call a sin to have voted for Obama

[oceanenvy]

Obama is on the record saying many things about abortion, partial birth abortion and the born alive act. he tried really hard to say oh I did not vote for it because it did not have this provision, then when that provison was added he voted against it and said there is already a bill like that but in another interview said it still didnt have the provison


in the end these words from him sum up his real feeling

go to this link

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=h4d9hYFfqUc

to hear him saying that its adding another doctor burdens the original decision of the woman

this statement of his shows that all his other crappy lies about why he voted for partial birth abortion and against the born alive act 4 times were all lies.

this is how he feels just accept it

You and I obviously disagree on this. The bottom line is that I'm happy he supports the woman's choice in these situations. We fundamentally disagree with that, I know. I just think it's strange for the Church to try to sway people's votes based on this one issue when there are so many issues at stake that should concern an organization with Christian ideals. They of course are welcome to endorse a candidate, but that may place their tax-exempt status in jeapordy. Therefore they revert to this more "passive-aggressive" approach of saying it's a "sin" to vote for someone. What's ultimately funny about all of this is that 54% of Catholics voted for Obama, despite the pleas from the Church.

 

[Pandora]

You and I obviously disagree on this. The bottom line is that I'm happy he supports the woman's choice in these situations. We fundamentally disagree with that, I know. I just think it's strange for the Church to try to sway people's votes based on this one issue when there are so many issues at stake that should concern an organization with Christian ideals. They of course are welcome to endorse a candidate, but that may place their tax-exempt status in jeapordy. Therefore they revert to this more "passive-aggressive" approach of saying it's a "sin" to vote for someone. What's ultimately funny about all of this is that 54% of Catholics voted for Obama, despite the pleas from the Church.

I am not sure what we disagree on

are you saying obama is not in favor of letting a child die who was born alive if the womans intent was to have the child aborted?

or are you agreeing with obama on this and that is were we disagree?

I lost a lot of respect I had for catholics in general that they could vote for something like him. I expect this from athiests and stuff but not from people who claim to believe in God or Jesus or Allah

 

[top gun]

This is something I've been saying all along....

Or the turn about to Obama voters going to confession for voting for Obama might more rightly might be...

Maybe the real confessions should come from the Catholic Church to President Obama because of all the pedophile Priests that have been busted and all the millions the church has had to pay out for the children's pain & suffering.

I mean at least President Obama is a great father who knows child molestation is an unforgivable sin and would have no problem legislating against it!

 

[primerib]

Does not mean that since Saddam Hussein was slaughtering innocent life in Iraq before we invaded that it was a sin not to invade? Does that mean Clinton's inaction in Rwanda is a sin and Clinton supporters are sinners?

This goes in circles forever and basically means nothing in the scheme of things.

I don't entirely agree with your argument. Comparing war with birth are 2 different things. There is a unyielding dispute to both sides of a military conflict but a unborn child is defenseless.

The church position is about sanctity of life and the moral fiber of our society. I'm pro-choice with first hand experience but I draw the line with using abortion as a contraceptive or aborting late term/live births.

In a way the church is right. They keep us centered and grounded on what is important. I won't become an evil far left anything goes, nothing shocks me liberal.

 

[Aus22]

As a Catholic I can not understand this topic. It is rare for any Bishop or priest to say not to vote for a particalar politician. Even then the statement has only the authority of that person not the church. Catholics must follow their own conscience and are free to vote anyway they like.

 

[Pandora]

As a Catholic I can not understand this topic. It is rare for any Bishop or priest to say not to vote for a particalar politician. Even then the statement has only the authority of that person not the church. Catholics must follow their own conscience and are free to vote anyway they like.

sure they are free to do it but if your priest followed what the Vatican said they would not give communion to someone who is pro abortion or voted pro abortion unless they repented of that belief system.

Many priests still do it, they give commuion to divorced people too and the vatican says they should not.

being a catholic these days is much like being a democrat or republcan, you take the part of it you like and leave the rest behind

 

[BigRob]

sure they are free to do it but if your priest followed what the Vatican said they would not give communion to someone who is pro abortion or voted pro abortion unless they repented of that belief system.

Many priests still do it, they give commuion to divorced people too and the vatican says they should not.

being a catholic these days is much like being a democrat or republcan, you take the part of it you like and leave the rest behind

As a Catholic I think it is ridiculous for a priest to withhold communion from anyone.

Jesus did not say the Eucharist was only for those who followed his views on life and abortion, he said it was for everyone.

 

[Pandora]

As a Catholic I think it is ridiculous for a priest to withhold communion from anyone.

Jesus did not say the Eucharist was only for those who followed his views on life and abortion, he said it was for everyone.

but as a catholic do you not believe in the popes athority? it was the pope who made the rules not the priests, but good priests who believe in the faith would obey the pope right?

 

[BigRob]

but as a catholic do you not believe in the popes athority? it was the pope who made the rules not the priests, but good priests who believe in the faith would obey the pope right?

I think Jesus overrules the Pope.

 

[Pandora]

I think Jesus overrules the Pope.

I agree with you but I am not catholic. Why not be another Christian denomination instead of catholic?

I never understood why people wanted to be a particular denomination but didn’t believe what that denomination taught.

I was reading on the Vatican website and some absolutes to be catholic were

Pope has final authority and is infallible when speaking for Christ (apparently a rare event)

And you must believe when you take communion you are actually drinking the literal blood body of Christ, that the priest has the power to transform the wine and cracker to become the literal blood and body. Most Catholics I have asked dont believe that the wine/cracker literally transforms but its a huge part of what it means to be RCC

Those are the two things that separate RCC from other denominations. I have personally never been any denomination or taken communion but IF I ever thought it was important I would pick a church that agreed with me on those main points.

To me that is the big problem with churches today, people are part of various denominational faiths but don’t believe what ever it is that makes that denomination what it is. So there are rebels who in a sense change what that church was founded on. It’s not just with the RCC it’s with all of them. Heck its in political parties too. RINO’s have watered down what republicans used to be and liberals have changed what democrats used to be. They should have started their own groups rather than change the existing group. IMHO

 

[top gun]

The sin that the priest cited was the "vote" for an individual. So, be it Obama or McCain, you would have to vote for their position on the issue of health care, poverty, war, abortion, etc.

I personally believe that Obama's position is more in keeping with the prevention of war and poverty. As for the bill on abortion you are citing, there was a whole thread devoted to why Obama voted the way he did. He was on record saying that he already felt there were laws in place that allowed for emergency care should an infant be born alive during the course of an abortion. By the way, Mccain is also on record favoring stem cell research. Shouldn't voting for him be a sin as well, considering the Catholic Church is against that?

You're spot on with your analysis. It's kettle - black... no pun intended. Once again it's just a misguided attempt to force one particular religious test to a particular politician. McCain and many Republican policies overall could easily be picked apart but the Right is invested in protecting that side.

If the Republicans ever want to win nationally again they had better do what the Obama campaign did with MoveOn. Let the outside edge of their Party talk to the solid base more privately and keep out of the spotlight in their national campaigns.

There have been soooo many church scandals moderates & Independents don't want heavy handed input from the extremes.

 

[top gun]

As a Catholic I can not understand this topic. It is rare for any Bishop or priest to say not to vote for a particalar politician. Even then the statement has only the authority of that person not the church. Catholics must follow their own conscience and are free to vote anyway they like.

This is true... and as someone who's not Catholic but has one side of their family who is you are absolutely correct.

There are MANY issues that affect the overall goodness and/or necessity of certain leaders being elected. The whole abortion thing is just a highly pushed Republican wedge issue. It could just as easily be a War causing mass casualties built on lies... or issues of defunding programs for the poor or elderly... or any number of other things.

Individual Catholics are often much, much more independent thinkers than just what a particular Priest or even the church itself would dictate.

 

[oceanenvy]

I am not sure what we disagree on

are you saying obama is not in favor of letting a child die who was born alive if the womans intent was to have the child aborted?

or are you agreeing with obama on this and that is were we disagree?

I lost a lot of respect I had for catholics in general that they could vote for something like him. I expect this from athiests and stuff but not from people who claim to believe in God or Jesus or Allah

The fundamental point we disagree on is abortion rights in general. I think we also disagree on the reasoning on why Obama did not sign that bill.

Secondly, I belong to a religion that is not Christian but does believe in God, and also supports reproductive choice for women. Belief in God and support of abortion rights are not mutually exclusive.

 

[PLC1]

To me that is the big problem with churches today, people are part of various denominational faiths but don’t believe what ever it is that makes that denomination what it is. So there are rebels who in a sense change what that church was founded on. It’s not just with the RCC it’s with all of them. Heck its in political parties too. RINO’s have watered down what republicans used to be and liberals have changed what democrats used to be. They should have started their own groups rather than change the existing group. IMHO

If a person really believes that the church leaders of whatever church he/she attends speaks for god, then it follows that the basic tenants of that church are beyond question.

I'm not sure the same can be said for political parties. Surely, no one believes that god is in charge of their party of choice, do they?

 

[Pandora]

If a person really believes that the church leaders of whatever church he/she attends speaks for god, then it follows that the basic tenants of that church are beyond question.

I'm not sure the same can be said for political parties. Surely, no one believes that god is in charge of their party of choice, do they?

I don’t think for the most part people in political parties think that God is in charge of their party but they may think god is on their side, except for atheists who don’t believe in a god


What I meant was I don’t think people should say they are part of something if they don’t believe the core of what that something is.

If the core belief of what it means to be a republican is small government, pro life and following of the constitution, then pro abortion, big government people shouldn’t say they are republican... now you can’t even tell what the party is because it’s so watered down.

Faith is similar, if someone wants to follow the core beliefs of a faith, like let’s say the RCC then it seems to me they should believe in the core ideas of that faith or pick another faith.

I look at that nutty priest who is for obama and think is that what the RCC has reduced its self to being I know what a real RC should believe but I never actually meet anyone who believes it.