"Don't raise Fed debt ceiling" means "Balance the Fed budget INSTANTLY"

Actually, I did. Check the rest of my post.

If lowering taxes magically increases income, then why not lower them to 5%? Why not 1%? Why not lower still? At what point does lowering taxes actually increase government revenues? 50%? 91%, as in the '50s?

The idea that cutting taxes automatically increases income by improving the economy is popular, of course. Doing the popular thing is not leadership. This nation faces some difficult challenges, and needs real leadership, which it hasn't had for a very long time now.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/realgdp_percentchngyoy.png

odd the real GDP goes up in the 90s...down in the 2000...

If GDP is higher...and taxes are higher....that would logicly mean more money taken in I would think.. higher percent of more would be...more

2000-2010...GDP lower..and lower taxes... Less percent of less would be ...less...

also how on earth did all those numbers get so high before...when tax rates where so much higher? hmmmm

But I am also sure that the economy would have fallen hard had we not lowered the Estate tax...you know the estate tax was realy holding back the economy.....
 
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http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/realgdp_percentchngyoy.png

odd the real GDP goes up in the 90s...down in the 2000...

If GDP is higher...and taxes are higher....that would logicly mean more money taken in I would think.. higher percent of more would be...more

2000-2010...GDP lower..and lower taxes... Less percent of less would be ...less...

also how on earth did all those numbers get so high before...when tax rates where so much higher? hmmmm

But I am also sure that the economy would have fallen hard had we not lowered the Estate tax...you know the estate tax was realy holding back the economy.....

Not the estate tax, no, it's the death tax. You have to get your tax names straight.

And you know that cutting taxes will bring in the revenue necessary to balance the budget, if only we sprinkle just the right amount of pixi dust on it. Wishful thinking? Just wait until that first star appears, cross your fingers, and make a wish. We can get out of this economic mess without paying or it if we only wish hard enough.
 
Not the estate tax, no, it's the death tax. You have to get your tax names straight.

And you know that cutting taxes will bring in the revenue necessary to balance the budget, if only we sprinkle just the right amount of pixi dust on it. Wishful thinking? Just wait until that first star appears, cross your fingers, and make a wish. We can get out of this economic mess without paying or it if we only wish hard enough.

Can't we just call it the I hate puppies and kittens tax?
 
Actually, I did. Check the rest of my post.
No, no you didn't... You began attacking lower taxes as wishful thinking, despite my never making comments on the subject of lowering taxes. So try really hard and deal only with things that I've actually said.

Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue

That's your own crackpot economic theory, so prove it.

Remember, attacking the concept of lowering taxes to increase revenue is not a defense of your own crackpot economic theory.

Greater revenue requires a larger GDP, the historical evidence to this fact is conclusive. So when you claim that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue, then you have to explain how higher taxes causes growth in the GDP. Magic? Pixie Dust? You haven't offered a single explanation to defend your own "voodoo" economic theory, you have only attacked equally rediculuous theories of "voodoo" economics.
 
No, no you didn't... You began attacking lower taxes as wishful thinking, despite my never making comments on the subject of lowering taxes. So try really hard and deal only with things that I've actually said.

Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue

That's your own crackpot economic theory, so prove it.

Remember, attacking the concept of lowering taxes to increase revenue is not a defense of your own crackpot economic theory.

Greater revenue requires a larger GDP, the historical evidence to this fact is conclusive. So when you claim that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue, then you have to explain how higher taxes causes growth in the GDP. Magic? Pixie Dust? You haven't offered a single explanation to defend your own "voodoo" economic theory, you have only attacked equally rediculuous theories of "voodoo" economics.

So, if lowering taxes doesn't increase revenues, and if increasing taxes doesn't increase revenues, then it follows that the tax rates we have now are the optimum we could possibly have.

If that's really the case, then the budget will have to be balanced with the current revenue. Cutting taxes, whether it is by reducing the maximum rate (Bush plan) or by giving tax credits across the board (Obama plan) won't help, and neither will increasing tax rates in order to try to bring the budget back into balance.

So, how do we know that the current rates are the optimum?
 
No, no you didn't... You began attacking lower taxes as wishful thinking, despite my never making comments on the subject of lowering taxes. So try really hard and deal only with things that I've actually said.

Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue

That's your own crackpot economic theory, so prove it.

Remember, attacking the concept of lowering taxes to increase revenue is not a defense of your own crackpot economic theory.

Greater revenue requires a larger GDP, the historical evidence to this fact is conclusive. So when you claim that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue, then you have to explain how higher taxes causes growth in the GDP. Magic? Pixie Dust? You haven't offered a single explanation to defend your own "voodoo" economic theory, you have only attacked equally rediculuous theories of "voodoo" economics.

so if the GDP stays the same, and taxes go up...income does not go up? If taxes go up 5% and gdp goes down 1%...what then? Or are we just going under the idea that people will just cheat on there taxes more?
 
so if the GDP stays the same, and taxes go up...income does not go up? If taxes go up 5% and gdp goes down 1%...what then? Or are we just going under the idea that people will just cheat on there taxes more?

Over 40 years of CBO data show that no matter what tax rates are, or how many taxes exist, the revenue to the federal gov. remains around 18% of GDP. That's not my personal opinion, that's not a hypothetical scenario, it's an historical, and statistical, fact.

If revenue to the federal government is going to increase by a statisticly significant amount, the GDP must grow accordingly.
 
So, how do we know that the current rates are the optimum?

I didn't ask your opinion on trickle down economics, I didn't ask your opinion about optimum tax rates, what I have asked is for you to offer proof that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue.
 
I didn't ask your opinion on trickle down economics, I didn't ask your opinion about optimum tax rates, what I have asked is for you to offer proof that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue.

As you well know, there is no such proof.

Actually, it has been proven many times that Higher Taxes = Less Revenue...but this does not seem to sink into the minds of liberals and others of the Left.

But, the most recent PROOF of this is in the State of Oregon...

Ducking Higher Taxes
Oregon's vanishing millionaires.

Oregon raised its income tax on the richest 2% of its residents last year to fix its budget hole, but now the state treasury admits it collected nearly one-third less revenue than the bean counters projected. The sun also rose in the east, and the Cubs didn't win the World Series.

In 2009 the state legislature raised the tax rate to 10.8% on joint-filer income of between $250,000 and $500,000, and to 11% on income above $500,000. Only New York City's rate is higher. Oregon's liberal voters ratified the tax increase on individuals and another on businesses in January of ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704034804576026233823935442.html

And this clearly indicates that lower tax rates can generate MORE revenue...proving once again that the Left Lies and many unfortunate souls fall for their lies time and again......

During the eight years of the Clinton Administration the Federal government collected a total of $5.66 trillion dollars in individual income taxes. During the eight years of the Bush Administration the Federal government collected approximately $7.45 trillion dollars in individual income taxes. The rich - that is, the top 1% of taxpayers - not only forked over a trillion dollars more to Uncle Sam under Bush than under Clinton, their share of the income tax burden increased from 33% to 38%.

Frezza adds that not only has the burden risen on the rich, but they are actually paying a higher blended tax rate under the Bush cuts:

During the eight years of the Clinton Administration the rich paid income taxes at a blended rate of 20.6%. During the eight years of the Bush Administration the rich paid income taxes at a blended tax rate of 21.3%. Yes, the actual tax rate that matters when you fill out the bottom line of your tax return went up for the rich under George Bush.

In other words, Frezza argues that the IRS' own data indicates these lower top-end rates have resulted in both higher revenues and higher real tax contributions from the wealthy.

Despite the counterintuitive nature of the argument, historical data seems to agree with Frezza. As the conservative Heritage Foundation notes about the Reagan tax cuts:

The share of income taxes paid by the top 10 percent of earners jumped significantly, climbing from 48.0 percent in 1981 to 57.2 percent in 1988. The top 1 percent saw their share of the income tax bill climb even more dramatically, from 17.6 percent in 1981 to 27.5 percent in 1988.

Even President Kennedy agreed with the concept of lower rates often meaning more revenue. He said:

"Our true choice is not between tax reduction, on the one hand, and the avoidance of large Federal deficits on the other. It is increasingly clear that no matter what party is in power, so long as our national security needs keep rising, an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits… In short, it is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now."

Some states may be finding this out first hand. Remember that Maryland raised taxes on millionaires in 2008 and tax revenues fell in 2009.

Read more: http://briansullivan.blogs.foxbusin...her-taxes-mean-less-tax-revenue#ixzz1BcI4ao1s
 
I didn't ask your opinion on trickle down economics, I didn't ask your opinion about optimum tax rates, what I have asked is for you to offer proof that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue.

If you can't see the relationship, then you've given me a difficult task. Let's see...

Income per trillion is taxed at an average rate of 15%, revenues on that amount are 150 billion. If the tax is 16%, then revenues are 160 billion.

Unless, of course, you think that raising taxes automatically decreases GDP, and therefore taxable income. Since you don't believe in trickle down, we don't have to explore that idea.

Actually, the effect on GDP probably depends on just what is taxed and how taxes are levied.

Further, since so many other factors determine GDP, there is no definitive proof of whether a particular levy has or has not affected it.

Since you like looking at the historical record, try going back 60 years and comparing the state of the economy then with the top marginal tax rates.
 
So, if lowering taxes doesn't increase revenues, and if increasing taxes doesn't increase revenues, then it follows that the tax rates we have now are the optimum we could possibly have.

The simplemindedness of the leftwing mind revealed with great clarity: "revenue depends only on tax rates". :D
 
The simplemindedness of the leftwing mind revealed with great clarity: "revenue depends only on tax rates". :D

Since the government revenue depends on collecting taxes, it is not so simple minded to think that revenue depends on tax rates.

It may not be simpleminded to believe that this government can balance its budget without raising taxes, but it is wishful thinking.

The "leftwing mind" just doesn't believe in free lunch nor in simplistic solutions to complex problems.
 
Income per trillion is taxed at an average rate of 15%, revenues on that amount are 150 billion. If the tax is 16%, then revenues are 160 billion.

That is so simplistic, yet you claim the left wing mind doesn't believe in simplistic solutions to complex problems....nonsensical.

Your statement is not only simplistic, it is incorrect. How can you state this obvious false statement?

This needs to be added to Gen's list of dumbest posts ever.
 
Income per trillion is taxed at an average rate of 15%, revenues on that amount are 150 billion. If the tax is 16%, then revenues are 160 billion.
I did not ask about hypothetical scenarios that sound great on paper, I asked for proof that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue.

Actually, the effect on GDP probably depends on just what is taxed and how taxes are levied.

Further, since so many other factors determine GDP, there is no definitive proof of whether a particular levy has or has not affected it.
I did not ask about factors that determine GDP, I asked you to prove your statement that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue.

Since you like looking at the historical record, try going back 60 years and comparing the state of the economy then with the top marginal tax rates.
There seems to be a break down in communication... I have asked for proof that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue and the only answers I get are to questions I have not asked. So please, tell me what question I should ask in order for your reply to be proof that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue... I will gladly ask that question, whatever it is.
 
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I did not ask about hypothetical scenarios that sound great on paper, I asked for proof that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue.


I did not ask about factors that determine GDP, I asked you to prove your statement that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue.


There seems to be a break down in communication... I have asked for proof that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue and the only answers I get are to questions I have not asked. So please, tell me what question I should ask in order for your reply to be proof that Higher Taxes = Greater Revenue... I will gladly ask that question, whatever it is.

Well, if you don't buy that 2+2 =4, or that 16% is more than 15%, then i have to admit there is no proof. So, let's by all means continue to believe that basic arithmetic is bogus, and that we don't have to raise taxes in order to balance the budget. That is, after all, what most of us want to believe anyway.

In fact, since there seems to be no relationship between tax rates and revenues, let's just cut taxes, cut them some more, then sprinkle that pixie dust around. Who needs math anyway?
 
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