Here something to think about

[Gabriel_Bell]

What is this "godless" crap?
If there is a god, then nothing is godless.
If there is none, then everything is godless.

The existence of a Supreme Being does not depend on anyone's belief or disbelief.

 

[mark francis]

What is this "godless" crap?
If there is a god, then nothing is godless.
If there is none, then everything is godless.

The existence of a Supreme Being does not depend on anyone's belief or disbelief.

Of course. God exists whether humans acknowledge that fact or not.

 

[Gabriel_Bell]

There is zero proof that the character called "God" in the Bible exists and many reasons why such a character has never existed, assuming that he is omniscient and capable of seeing into the future.

I mean, why would an all-knowing God stick a forbidden tree in the Garden of Eden when he already knew that he would be disobeyed?

Why would an all-knowing God go to the bother of flooding the entire planet and killing all but eight people when he knew beforehand that the descendants of those eight people were going the screw up again?

Why would the same all-knowing God that saw Adam and Eve screw up and then Noah's descendants screw up go to the bother of trying again with a defective Messiah who fit very few of the predicted traits of a Messiah who endured a really bad weekend and then promised to return rather soon and then did not? Hell, the Messiah was supposed to be named Emmanuel, not Yeshua (Jesus).

There COULD HAVE once existed a creator god, and such an entity still might exist. But it is clear as glass that it is not the character referred to as "God" in the Bible.

Wise up, Mark, you been had!

 

[mark francis]

There is zero proof that the character called "God" in the Bible exists and many reasons why such a character has never existed, assuming that he is omniscient and capable of seeing into the future.

There is no evidence of any kind that some cause other than God is responsible for the miraculous sudden emergence of the universe from nothing.

 

[Gabriel_Bell]

You claim that the universe exists because nothing can exist without a creator.
So you conclude that there was a creator, and he was an entity you call "God".

The logic is bad here, because if everything must have a creator, then someone or something had to create God.

So you will say that God has always existed.

But it is just as logical to say that the Universe has always existed, as matter , energy, and or something else.

One set of circumstances is every bit as likely as the other.

 

[mark francis]

You claim that the universe exists because nothing can exist without a creator.
So you conclude that there was a creator, and he was an entity you call "God".

The logic is bad here, because if everything must have a creator, then someone or something had to create God.

So you will say that God has always existed.

But it is just as logical to say that the Universe has always existed, as matter , energy, and or something else.

One set of circumstances is every bit as likely as the other.

You sure use a lot of words to demonstrate the fact that you have no scientifically valid clue for how the universe just suddenly appeared from nowhere without a cause and without pre-existing matter.

 

[Gabriel_Bell]

That s NOT what I said.
Here is what I believe: either all the matter and energy and whatever else exists in the universe has always existed (most likely), or somehow <*POOF!*> it all came into being either gradually or all at once.

The latter is what you believe, because you claim that God created it all out of nothing.

I cannot say that I know how the universe began. was not there. I tend to think that the Universe has always existed in some manner or another. Because that is what Occam's Law suggests: of various possibilities, it is wisest to choose the least complex.

An eternal Universe is less complicated than an eternal omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, invisible and intangible being waiting in the wings of nothingness for the right moment. Assuming there were moments then.

There is, of course, a third possibility: that everything in the entire Universe has always existed and it is God. This is called Pantheism, and Baruch Spinoza (1632-1677) the descendant of Portuguese Jews born and raised in the Netherlands.

And I did not use many words at all, not compared to René Descartes, Maimonides, Thomas Aquinas and many others.

 

[Stalin]

let us all forget the millions killed in the colonisation of the americas by christians, the mass killings of muslims, jews and armenian
christians by the crusaders. the wholesale slaughter of the religious wars of the reformation...

and of course the huge killings of millions of jews and orthodox russian christians in ww2 all carried out by christians ( usually catholics )

compared to this, a few godless leftists, whoever they are..are small potatoes..

do not enrol in any history class

you will fail

comrade stalin
rome

 

[Gabriel_Bell]

We should not forget anyone unjustly killed anywhere at any time.
We should recognize barbarism and defend against it.

The original Joseph Stalin was a monster, by the way.

 

[Stalin]

comrade...

you do not have to "by the way" me..i have read many books on the russian and chinese revolutions, hitler, stalin and trotsky
and many other figures of this time

from the start of the revolution, comrade stalin had to fight against invading armies, determined
efforts by the wicked capitalists to infiltrate and corrupt russia and the hitlerite filth led by
adolf and his henchmen to not just conquer but eliminate the soviet people..

a hard time needs a hard man to be victorious

and make no mistake..the russian people rallied around stalin and beat off the nazi menace...

the opening of the kremlin archives paints quite a different picture from that of conquest and his fellow-travellers

no one ever calls fdr or truman or johnson or bush I and II or obama a monster

what is their combined death toll ?

comrade stalin

 

[Stalin]

You sure use a lot of words to demonstrate the fact that you have no scientifically valid clue for how the universe just suddenly appeared from nowhere without a cause and without pre-existing matter.

it is true that the current hypothesis is not complete and coherent, but it is far more evidence-based and believable than some old geezer
wandering around the world bestowing the title of chosen people on a collection of really brutal bandits and superstitious religious nutters when advanced civilisations had city-states, written languages, more peaceful and complex religions and are still around today viz China, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Sumer...

your quaint view of science and history went out of date during the reformation..which you seem to have missed

comrade stalin
giza

 

[mark francis]

We should not forget anyone unjustly killed anywhere at any time.
We should recognize barbarism and defend against it.

The original Joseph Stalin was a monster, by the way.

Enemies of God who murder Jews without mercy shall be judged by God without mercy.


Esther 9

King James Version
​

1 Now in the twelfth month, that is, the month Adar, on the thirteenth day of the same, when the king's commandment and his decree drew near to be put in execution, in the day that the enemies of the Jews hoped to have power over them, (though it was turned to the contrary, that the Jews had rule over them that hated them
2 The Jews gathered themselves together in their cities throughout all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus, to lay hand on such as sought their hurt: and no man could withstand them; for the fear of them fell upon all people.
3 And all the rulers of the provinces, and the lieutenants, and the deputies, and officers of the king, helped the Jews; because the fear of Mordecai fell upon them.
4 For Mordecai was great in the king's house, and his fame went out throughout all the provinces: for this man Mordecai waxed greater and greater.
5 Thus the Jews smote all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, and slaughter, and destruction, and did what they would unto those that hated them.
6 And in Shushan the palace the Jews slew and destroyed five hundred men.
7 And Parshandatha, and Dalphon, and Aspatha,
8 And Poratha, and Adalia, and Aridatha,
9 And Parmashta, and Arisai, and Aridai, and Vajezatha,
10 The ten sons of Haman the son of Hammedatha, the enemy of the Jews, slew they; but on the spoil laid they not their hand.
11 On that day the number of those that were slain in Shushan the palace was brought before the king.
12 And the king said unto Esther the queen, The Jews have slain and destroyed five hundred men in Shushan the palace, and the ten sons of Haman; what have they done in the rest of the king's provinces? now what is thy petition? and it shall be granted thee: or what is thy request further? and it shall be done.
13 Then said Esther, If it please the king, let it be granted to the Jews which are in Shushan to do to morrow also according unto this day's decree, and let Haman's ten sons be hanged upon the gallows.
14 And the king commanded it so to be done: and the decree was given at Shushan; and they hanged Haman's ten sons.
15 For the Jews that were in Shushan gathered themselves together on the fourteenth day also of the month Adar, and slew three hundred men at Shushan; but on the prey they laid not their hand.

 

[the annoying thing]

No one wants the Palestine people from Gaza and there is a good reason why.

 

[Gabriel_Bell]

I hardly think that this is accurate. If the Biblical "God" character was really really pissed off about killing Jews, the very least he could do is descend to Earth with some angels and make a public appearance.

And he could grab some Jew haters and publicly disembowel them. That would certainly be appropriate.
But he didn't. He just sat there on his Throne looking Biblical and remaining invisible and mute, like always.

He didn't do that when Pharoah mistreated Jews, he didn't do that when the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Nazis and Hamas killed Jews.

 

[mark francis]

I hardly think that this is accurate. If the Biblical "God" character was really really pissed off about killing Jews, the very least he could do is descend to Earth with some angels and make a public appearance.

And he could grab some Jew haters and publicly disembowel them. That would certainly be appropriate.
But he didn't. He just sat there on his Throne looking Biblical and remaining invisible and mute, like always.

He didn't do that when Pharoah mistreated Jews, he didn't do that when the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Nazis and Hamas killed Jews.

Your evaluation of God and His strategies is brutishly absurd.