If clergy were honest, would religions die?

I think that is probably very true. I'm reading a book about Augustine at the moment by Robert Lane Fox; as a seemingly lifelong closet Manichean the struggles that Augustine when through to rationalise his faith and belief systems took him through a whole gamit of philosophical ideas borrowed from many parts of the world and from many different times. However, don't those musings of his and his compatriots lay the foundations for the modern philosophical approach to the church and its teachings and indeed its philosophical underpinning; I mean by the serious Christian thinkers, and thus by default already incorporated into the discourse?

Is Mani part of your belief system? I find him very bizzaar and confusing.

Many of the older Gnostic religions, like all religions of those early days were bizarre, especially given that we were arguing against the myths of others with our own. That was when everyone knew it was all myth and before literal reading of myths was began by Christianity.

That is why even today many think we have a supernatural content to our real beliefs when we do not. Unfortunately, the old description and designation of the word God, which could apply to a man, has almost been forgotten.

Perhaps I can look at which policy you refer to as bizarre and give you the modern view.

Before you ask, ---- if this was one of the issues, ---- no we do not hate matter as matter and our bodies houses the kingdom of God and the only God you can ever know. The one who resides within you.

Regards
DL
 
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Yeah.... I'm not sure what sort of religion this is? I guess if all you want is some quotes from the bible, bouncing up and down with a few "praise the lords" and a smattering of "hallelujahs" then the subtleties of the faith are probably missing.
Maybe if the congregation leader has some idea of what he's talking about then he could have conveyed the nuances of his religion a bit better?
Oral Roberts University???? Cash, snake oil and bullshit.

U C 20/20 on this.

I think that that particular preachers work was good but it could not overcome the love to hate the other tribal attitude that his congregation had. This poem speaks to that a bit.

"Whoever imagines himself a favorite with God,
holds other people in contempt.
Whenever a man believes that he has the exact truth from God,
there is in that man no spirit of compromise.
He has not the modesty born of the imperfections of human nature;
he has the arrogance of theological certainty and the tyranny born of ignorant assurance.
Believing himself to be the slave of God,
he imitates his master,
and of all tyrants,
the worst is a slave in power."
--Robert Ingersoll


Regards
DL
 
Interesting! I have had a couple of moments I felt were "beyond" my understanding, but were increasingly intense and meaningful.
1. The very first (and only) time I experienced Reiki, I had a sort of "vision" where I was standing on one side of a spring. On the other side, a woman dressed in white veils flowing in the wind was standing in a luscious decor of green grass and orchard. I could see only her back, not her face, but I wanted to join her there. Then, the wind, the sun, the air itself seemed to traverse her, she became part of it, as if she became transparent and herself and her veils swayed by the elements around her. It was very intense.
2. I used to work with people with AIDS, at a time (the mid 1990's) when AIDS was a fatal disease. During that time, I witnessed many death of young men, and a few women. Almost every week we had one or two of our clients death. Some of them had "celebration of life" prior to their death, usually within 1 week to a couple of days before they closed their eyes. Those celebrations were always very intense and a mixture of joy and sadness. . . usually no regrets. In one of those gathering, a gay man with AIDS put his arms around my shoulder in an act of solidarity, but very suddenly removed it. . .as if he had been burned. He looked at me stunned, and almost frightened and told me that, indeed, he had felt extreme heat when he touched me. It surprised me, but I didn't think much about it. . .until the same kind of encounter happened again twice, and always with people with AIDS. Once it was simply shaking hands. . . and I was told my hand was burning. ..although I didn't feel any unusual heat.
3. During my fight with breast cancer, while I was unsure whether I would survive or not, I woke up in the middle of the night in my bed, my husband sleeping next to me. I opened my eyes with the feeling someone was staring at me, and in front of me was an old woman(older I guess, as I was 46 at that time, and the woman might have been my current age between 65 and 75) bowing over me. . .and I screamed in fright! A chilling scream that obviously woke up my husband. The "woman" had disappeared, and I was left with a feeling of regret, a knowledge that that "woman" didn't want me any arm but, on the contrary, was a loving, friendly shadow, taking care of me, and for days I felt so sorry that I screamed instead of communicating with "her!"

Yes.. .I may be slightly crazy! But I call all those "encounters" my diamonds! You see, I am a very big "diamond" collectors. I have a corner of my consciousness filled with those "special moments" where I felt I was given a glimpse of (for lack of better word!) heaven.

Anecdotal rendering are always interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Stress and or major life changes seem to trigger our subconscious to help us. I was in a time of rather major transition when I had my two telepathic experiences. If I did not have a witness I would have chalked it up to a mind burp and would not believe in the reality of telepathy today.

You might like to listen to this link that speaks of some of the aspects that none of us are immune from.


Regards
DL
 
I belong to a major church. Like Openmind I had encounters which can not be explain. I think they come from God. Most people are spiritual not religious
Gnostic Bishop does not understand main stream religions. We do not think if we belong we will go to Heaven. Nor do we believe many will go to Hell. But we accept we will suffer as Christ did. At the moment in my country we are suffering persecution because we constantly attack in the media,. But we expect this as we are told to take up our cross.
 
Gnostic Bishop does not understand main stream religions.
I wouldn't bet too much on that statement if I were you!
If it wasn't for gnosticism you probably wouldn't have "main stream" religion.

Most people are spiritual not religious..........Nor do we believe many will go to Hell
As "spiritualists" do you understand "hell" as a physical location or a philosophical concept like suffering or a state of being like evil for example?
I guess you could apply the same rationale to "heaven" if creation was ex nihilo then how do you, presumably as a spiritualist, perceive heaven and indeed hell in terms of main stream religion?
 
I belong to a major church. Like Openmind I had encounters which can not be explain. I think they come from God. Most people are spiritual not religious
Gnostic Bishop does not understand main stream religions. We do not think if we belong we will go to Heaven. Nor do we believe many will go to Hell. But we accept we will suffer as Christ did. At the moment in my country we are suffering persecution because we constantly attack in the media,. But we expect this as we are told to take up our cross.

An attack with words is hardly persecution.

I like that you follow Jesus and wish to pick up your cross and follow his lead.

How do you square that with Christians placing their cross on Jesus and trying to ride him into heaven as their scapegoat?

You might recognize that that view is what this bishop says will kill Christianity. I think he is right for the simple reason that the Christian view of having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs they have done, --- so that they might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.


Regards
DL
 
I don't think you would like the manichean seeded bread!! Its to do with spreading "light" and what the "electors" did to make the bread....:eek:

This is just a guess.

It sounds like they were using an analogy for bread as our minds and the seed as ideas . Light, in this case, would be used the same way these scriptures us it.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Gnostic Christians are esoteric ecumenists and often use that type of language just as Jesus did or the scribes that put those words into Jesus' mouth.

The electors in your quote would have been anyone in the congregation because anyone could act as priest and speak of what they thought was illuminating from their personal knowledge or deeper Gnosis.

Regards
DL
 
....seeded bread!!! I'm pretty sure this has no modern equivalent except in perhaps some very weird corners of Amsterdam..;)

Actually, it isn't bad! It is just a bread that is made from a dough originating from an original "seed" (natural yeast is used as leavening) which then double (or triple) daily and basically never runs out. One of my former neighbours started a "sharing" a few years ago, and several of us received that "seed," made our bread, and passed the multiplied "seed" along to other neighbours. In the modern form, you can add different fragrance to the dough before you bake it (i.e., sesame seeds, lemon, raisins, etc. . .).
 
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