Must liberals be pro choice?

[Pandora]

Let me see if I can help Pocket out on this one...

Here is a list of their rankings from Liberal to Conservative... Find the most Liberal Congresscritter you can that is pro-life.

Great link

The least conservative pro life person I could find was
Stupak, Bart D-Mich. also a self described BLUE DOG!

Liberal score was 58.3
Conservative score was 41.7

The pro life pro gun liberal hahahahha He is a whoppin liberal with that 41.7 percent conservative score


well the haha might actually be the pro life considering his "deal" he made with obama care... what a joke!

 

[Pandora]

actuly based on your posts before, those people are all Liberals anyway...Just republicans....

Heath Shuler (N.C.), Charlie Wilson (Ohio), Joe Donnelly (Ind.), Brad Ellsworth (Ind.), Baron Hill (Ind.), Jason Altmire (Pa.) and Chris Carney (Pa.) , Sen. Bob Casey Jr. ( penn) so there are a few...don't worry I am sure you will find some reason not to count them...

Shuler, Heath, D-N.C.-11 Liberal rating 49.7 Conservative 50.3

he has higher conservative points than liberal! wouldn't a liberal actually rank high in liberal points and low in conservative??



Wilson, Charlie, D-Ohio-6 Liberal rating 55.2 Conservative 44.8

You are sure he is a liberal?



Donnelly, Joe, D-Ind.-2 Liberal rating 47 Conservative 53

eek: he has higher conservative points than liberal! wouldn't a liberal actually rank high in liberal points and low in conservative??




Ellsworth, Brad, D-Ind.-8 Liberal rating 48.2 Conservative 51.8

Republican Gilchrest, Wayne is more liberal than Brad Ellsworth




Hill, Baron, D-Ind.-9 Liberal rating 51 Conservative 49

I thought numbers this close would be a moderate not a liberal




Altmire, Jason, D-Pa.-4 Liberal rating 51.3 Conservative 48.7

looks pretty center left to me, not a liberal




Carney, Christopher, D-Pa-10 Liberal rating 49.7 Conservative 50.3

More right than left yet a liberal ..... strange!

Couldn't find Bob Casey Jr on the list but since he is just like the others you named, Blue Dog Democrats who are pro life pro gun exc. I expect his score would be right in there with these guys.

Are you seriously going to try and argue that ANY of the men you named are Liberals? Seriously ?


If so, you are going to have to describe what you think a liberal is and do you understand the difference between conservative, moderate and liberal?

Do you know what the term "Blue Dog Democrat" means?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

First why does a NRA Rating have anything to do with LIberal? Am I not liberal since I am not for banning all guns?

And again...the question was ...Do you have to be Pro Life to be LIberal...not do you have to be Pro choice to be elected as a Liberal to high office...

I could vote for a Pro LIfe Liberal, and know pro Life Liberals...deal with it..or you can say I am not Liberal

 

[Pandora]

First why does a NRA Rating have anything to do with LIberal? Am I not liberal since I am not for banning all guns?

And again...the question was ...Do you have to be Pro Life to be LIberal...not do you have to be Pro choice to be elected as a Liberal to high office...

I could vote for a Pro LIfe Liberal, and know pro Life Liberals...deal with it..or you can say I am not Liberal

What exactly is a liberal to you?

To me a liberal is not a moderate and not a conservative but they are liberal in all areas. If they are anything other than liberal they have an added title like Social liberal

Every single person you named is a self proclaimed Blue Dog and called a blue dog by liberals, Is a blue dog and a liberal the same thing to you? If so then why do other liberals separate the blue dogs from themselves?

Again Ill say the same thing I said before, I know of zero Liberals in government that are pro life, and I have never personally met a liberal who is pro life, though I have met democrats who are pro life, just like I have met republicans who are pro abortion.

 

[PLC1]

All the items you listed are not views solely held by conservatives and many conservatives do not hold those views. Plus you will find many non-conservatives agree with all five. But, your list is very enlightening into your lack of understanding - highly typical liberal response.

Regarding the baby murder example, has it ever occurred to a leftist like you that murdering a baby in the womb LIMITS the LIBERTY of the baby? I would guess not. To you, a baby is just an nonviable tissue mass. Sort of like a toe nail.

Since you have labled me a liberal, and since I have expressed opinions regarding all of the five issues above, therefore, the liberal outlook is the one I have expressed.

Right?

All liberals are the same, right?

And, there is a generally agreed upon definition of the term, correct?
But, if all conservatives don't have the same opinions of those five issues, it follows that conservatives aren't all the same, correct?

Could it possibly be that political philosophy is more complex than the simplistic liberal to conservative continuum? No, no, that is way too radical of an idea.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

What exactly is a liberal to you?

To me a liberal is not a moderate and not a conservative but they are liberal in all areas. If they are anything other than liberal they have an added title like Social liberal

Every single person you named is a self proclaimed Blue Dog and called a blue dog by liberals, Is a blue dog and a liberal the same thing to you? If so then why do other liberals separate the blue dogs from themselves?

Again Ill say the same thing I said before, I know of zero Liberals in government that are pro life, and I have never personally met a liberal who is pro life, though I have met democrats who are pro life, just like I have met republicans who are pro abortion.

maybe becuse as soon as they say they are pro life...you label them as not liberal....?

 

[GenSeneca]

I have never personally met a liberal who is pro life

Just out of curiosity I decided to look for a Pro-Life Socialist... And I found one! She was responding to a blog post about Pro-Life Socialism...

"I’m anti-abortion and socialist, based in dublin ireland. it wrecks my head that most pro-life people here in ireland are right-wing. if u r left-wing and anti-abortion because u believe in womens rights please get in touch with me
peace" - Eleanor Boyle

The only way you could find someone more liberal than a Socialist is to find a Pro-Life Communist.... Oh look, there's one now!

Lenin Raghavarshi, Pro-Life Communist Atheist

"At the basis of all human rights is the right to live," says Lenin Raghavarshi, the winner of the 2007 Gwangju prize for human rights.

Communist... You can't get more Liberal than that!

 

[Pandora]

maybe becuse as soon as they say they are pro life...you label them as not liberal....?

ok again let me ask you

what is a liberal to you

is a liberal and a blue dog the same thing

is a moderate and a liberal the same thing

is anyone who is pro abortion a liberal to you?

 

[Pandora]

Just out of curiosity I decided to look for a Pro-Life Socialist... And I found one! She was responding to a blog post about Pro-Life Socialism...

"I’m anti-abortion and socialist, based in dublin ireland. it wrecks my head that most pro-life people here in ireland are right-wing. if u r left-wing and anti-abortion because u believe in womens rights please get in touch with me
peace" - Eleanor Boyle

The only way you could find someone more liberal than a Socialist is to find a Pro-Life Communist.... Oh look, there's one now!

Lenin Raghavarshi, Pro-Life Communist Atheist

"At the basis of all human rights is the right to live," says Lenin Raghavarshi, the winner of the 2007 Gwangju prize for human rights.

Communist... You can't get more Liberal than that!

That is cool, you found 2. Were either of them in America?

I honestly cant say I know much about politics in other countries. And all I was really doing was responding to PLC1's thread.

I dont think you have to be pro abortion to be a liberal, its just that I dont know of anyone who is a liberal and who is pro life, not in my personal life and not in my American government. And considering that liberals wont put anyone on the SC unless they are pro abortion and will fight to keep anyone off the SC if they are pro life and being pro abortion is part of their platform, its not shocking that its hard to find a pro life liberal


Its cool you found a couple of people, you defended pockets argument a hell of a lot better than pocket did

apparently there are at least two some place on this planet

 

[PLC1]

That is cool, you found 2. Were either of them in America?

I honestly cant say I know much about politics in other countries. And all I was really doing was responding to PLC1's thread.

I dont think you have to be pro abortion to be a liberal, its just that I dont know of anyone who is a liberal and who is pro life, not in my personal life and not in my American government. And considering that liberals wont put anyone on the SC unless they are pro abortion and will fight to keep anyone off the SC if they are pro life and being pro abortion is part of their platform, its not shocking that its hard to find a pro life liberal


Its cool you found a couple of people, you defended pockets argument a hell of a lot better than pocket did

apparently there are at least two some place on this planet

I don't think you have to be pro choice to be a liberal either, not if you define a liberal as someone who is in favor of a strong central government. I really don't think you have to reject global climate change or evolution in order to be a conservative, either, despite my somewhat tongue in cheek threads and posts.

However, it is pretty predictable that someone calling themselves "liberal" is going to be pro choice, and that someone calling themselves "conservative" is going to be a non believer when it comes to evolution and climate change. There may not be a "requirement", but those unrelated positions do seem to be related, at least in many people's minds.

What I really think is that the terms "conservative" and "liberal" are so elastic as to have no meaning at all. "Communists" are "liberals"??? There wasn't much liberal about the Communists of the old Soviet Union, not unless your definition is simply, anyone who favors a strong central government. Is modern China "liberal"? What about Iran, is that a liberal country?


The working definition of liberal I see in some of the posts is not the opposite of conservative, but the opposite of libertarian.

 

[GenSeneca]

"Communists" are "liberals"???

More accurately, Communists are Progressives but Progressivism was so discredited at the turn of the century that they began calling themselves Liberals. It's only recently that they have begun to once again call themselves Progressives.

There wasn't much liberal about the Communists of the old Soviet Union

You are confusing classical liberalism for modern liberalism. Modern liberalism is Progressivism and the Soviet Union was incredibly Progressive. It's no coincidence that Communists and Socialist refer to themselves as Progressives.

Is modern China "liberal"?

China is Progressive.

What about Iran, is that a liberal country?

You got me there... Dictatorial theocracies are not Progressive.

The working definition of liberal I see in some of the posts is not the opposite of conservative, but the opposite of libertarian.

Conservatives want small, limited government. That is the polar opposite of what modern liberals (Progressives) seek to accomplish. Aside from their social issues, Conservatives and Libertarians are very much in agreement concerning the proper role of government.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

ok again let me ask you

what is a liberal to you

is a liberal and a blue dog the same thing

is a moderate and a liberal the same thing

is anyone who is pro abortion a liberal to you?

A liberal and a Blue dog...all blue dog means is a term for Dems who are more economicly conservitive then other liberals...It simple means they are liberal on social issues, but less liberal in economic issues.

A moderate and a liberal are not the same thing...a moderate is ...Moderate...a liberal is farther on the left.. it puzzles me you can't figure that out...Do you have issue figuring out what a moderate conservative is? Do you think moderate is some term that magicaly applies different for liberals then conservatives?

No being pro choice has nothing to do with making one Liberal or Conservative...there are Liberal and conservative arguments for both sides. Do you think that someone who wants a more fair econ system, and is open and accepting of other groups ....must somehow also just be pro choice? Martin Luther King was very Liberal I am sure you would agree...I would not be at all shocked if he was also Pro Life...I also don't think that if your Pro LIfe you must be Conservitive...unlike you I don't think that almost any issue is a your for this one issue or against or your not LIberal or conservitive..

Like I said....if I said I was pro life now..would you say I am not liberal then? Just all my other issues are the same...Am I a conservitive now? No, of course now...

and again I have to point out, you keep asking for name a High profile Politician who is Liberal and Pro LIfe...I don't have to ...I never said that person who is Pro Life and Liberal, is likely to get voted into higher office...you did...I don't have to defend your position...There are many people who are Pro life, and Liberal....just because they are not going to win a US Senate seat or be the President of the US...does not make them not exist as Mayor, Governor, or some lower position, or have none at all..like my professor who was not in government.Also like I said, anyone who I did list, you will just say they are not liberal...of course if they had been used in any other context...you would have called them Liberal...Even Liberal Republicans...

 

[Pandora]

I don't think you have to be pro choice to be a liberal either, not if you define a liberal as someone who is in favor of a strong central government. I really don't think you have to reject global climate change or evolution in order to be a conservative, either, despite my somewhat tongue in cheek threads and posts.

However, it is pretty predictable that someone calling themselves "liberal" is going to be pro choice, and that someone calling themselves "conservative" is going to be a non believer when it comes to evolution and climate change. There may not be a "requirement", but those unrelated positions do seem to be related, at least in many people's minds.

What I really think is that the terms "conservative" and "liberal" are so elastic as to have no meaning at all. "Communists" are "liberals"??? There wasn't much liberal about the Communists of the old Soviet Union, not unless your definition is simply, anyone who favors a strong central government. Is modern China "liberal"? What about Iran, is that a liberal country?


The working definition of liberal I see in some of the posts is not the opposite of conservative, but the opposite of libertarian.

I still think you are totally off base on the climate change thing. Everyone even kids in "special" schools know the climate changes and varies.

We disagree on if its all due to man...

 

[Pandora]

A liberal and a Blue dog...all blue dog means is a term for Dems who are more economicly conservitive then other liberals...It simple means they are liberal on social issues, but less liberal in economic issues.

A moderate and a liberal are not the same thing...a moderate is ...Moderate...a liberal is farther on the left.. it puzzles me you can't figure that out...Do you have issue figuring out what a moderate conservative is? Do you think moderate is some term that magicaly applies different for liberals then conservatives?

No being pro choice has nothing to do with making one Liberal or Conservative...there are Liberal and conservative arguments for both sides. Do you think that someone who wants a more fair econ system, and is open and accepting of other groups ....must somehow also just be pro choice? Martin Luther King was very Liberal I am sure you would agree...I would not be at all shocked if he was also Pro Life...I also don't think that if your Pro LIfe you must be Conservitive...unlike you I don't think that almost any issue is a your for this one issue or against or your not LIberal or conservitive..

Like I said....if I said I was pro life now..would you say I am not liberal then? Just all my other issues are the same...Am I a conservitive now? No, of course now...

and again I have to point out, you keep asking for name a High profile Politician who is Liberal and Pro LIfe...I don't have to ...I never said that person who is Pro Life and Liberal, is likely to get voted into higher office...you did...I don't have to defend your position...There are many people who are Pro life, and Liberal....just because they are not going to win a US Senate seat or be the President of the US...does not make them not exist as Mayor, Governor, or some lower position, or have none at all..like my professor who was not in government.Also like I said, anyone who I did list, you will just say they are not liberal...of course if they had been used in any other context...you would have called them Liberal...Even Liberal Republicans...

You are puzzled because you are not paying attention to anything I said, and I think its on purpose so what ever...

If you think a blue dog is just someone who is just conservative in economics then why is it that every blue dog you mentioned is pro life and pro guns, unlike liberals.

You want to pretend that blue dogs are liberals then what ever trips your trigger.

and no, just being pro life would not make you a conservative, you really are confused aren't you!

 

[pocketfullofshells]

You are puzzled because you are not paying attention to anything I said, and I think its on purpose so what ever...

If you think a blue dog is just someone who is just conservative in economics then why is it that every blue dog you mentioned is pro life and pro guns, unlike liberals.

You want to pretend that blue dogs are liberals then what ever trips your trigger.

and no, just being pro life would not make you a conservative, you really are confused aren't you!

you are the one who says if your pro life you are not liberal...you do read your own posts right? Thus useing logic ( you may have a hard time here) if I was to be pro life...then I am not liberal anymore...see its that simple...well to you...I actually think thats retarded...

Also lets think..every blue dog I mentioned is Pro Life? ummm dah? that was the point? I did not name...every blue dog now did I? If we where talking in person, i would be speaking very slow right now so you understand...its really not that hard here....

You know who else is "pro gun" Hunters...so does that mean now all hunters in my state are Conservative? Or do they all need to turn in there liberal card? For that matter...I supported Conceal and Carry in my state...Do I need to turn in mine as well?