Need a conspiracy theory debunked?

i suppose you need names and medical reports to prove that Agent Orange is both deadly and harmful too huh?

Well, I've actually seen medical reports about 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin(TCDD). The National Toxicology Program has classified TCDD to be a human carcinogen. I haven't seen any such reports about depleted uranium.
 
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OK first of all, not even the government is claiming that DU is not harmful, except you??

The debate rages about wether or not its harmful in the supposed low doses that humans are exposed to, either through a contaminated environment..or inhalation, or combat..etc.

The effects of DU on lab animals for instance, are well documented.
 
I'm not claiming that is not harmless either. When you inject relatively large doses into the body, of course it is going to produce harmfull effects, but DU is not a health hazard unless it is taken into the body in large doses. The alpha particle of depleted uranium only travels a few centimeters and can be stopped by a sheet of paper, so unless its inside your body, it can't hurt you unless you spend a day rolling around naked in a pile of the stuff.

You are right about the effects of DU on animals being well documented, and the findings seem to support what I've been saying. In rats that have been given doses of DU equal to that found in the 20 Gulf War veterans I mentioned earlier, the most signifigant effect was slight weight loss. Only when given very high doses of DU (5X higher than any reported in Gulf War veterans) did the rats show reduction of nueronal activity in the hippocampus. The study clearly showed that DU cannot be responsible for the things conspiracy nuts claim it to be.
 
The specific activity (SA) of a uranium compound depends on its
isotopic composition. The SA of natural uranium (containing
0.72% uranium-235) is 6.77×10^-7 curies per gram (Ci/g).

For depleted uranium (uranium-235 containing less than 0.72%):
SA = 3.6 × 10-7 Ci/g

For enriched uranium (uranium-235 containing more than 0.72%):
SA = {0.4 + 0.38(enrichment) + 0.0034(enrichment)2}×10^-6 Ci/g,
where enrichment is the percent uranium-235.

Thus, the SA of depleted uranium is approximately half that of
natural uranium. (To express SA in standard international units,
multiply the value in Ci/g by 3.7 × 10^10 becquerels [Bq]/Ci.)
^^^I'm not so sure that it's that much less active than uranium. At least not to the point that a sheet of paper can stop the radioactive emissions. That being said, the main danger comes from breathing the dust (which I imagine forms quite readily when you are using something as a kinetic weapon. just doesn't seem that safe to me. I'd really not want to live near any place that was littered with tons of the stuff.

http://www.ead.anl.gov/pub/doc/u-depleted.pdf

good times, I definitely wouldn't want to breathe any DU oxide, that's for sure. I mean that government data on DU doesn't make it sound safe at all. the U-235, though a rather small content, is very readily fissionable. Gamma rays for all,
1343_3383_1.jpg

The hulk supports the use of Depleted Uranium.




On that note, small bricks of uranium are great paperweights.
Once at the airport where my old roommates dad worked, they had this small box with a uranium cube that was appx. 1 sq. ft. we couldn't lift it. That stuff is crazy heavy.


------edit

also from that pdf

depleted uranium was ultimately selected because of its very high density, availability,
noncompetitive uses, and pyrophoricity (spontaneous combustion upon exposure to air).
~
(ref; a10 30mm shells) As much as 70% of a depleted uranium
penetrator can be aerosolized when it strikes a tank.
~
Aerosols containing uranium oxides may contaminate
the area downwind. Uranium metal and oxide fragments may also contaminate the soil around the struck
vehicle. Tests of depleted uranium penetrators striking depleted uranium armored vehicles have shown that
most of the contamination will occur within 5 to 7 meters (16 to 23 feet) of the vehicle

I'm sure this is where the safety worries come into play.
 
I'm not claiming that is not harmless either. When you inject relatively large doses into the body, of course it is going to produce harmfull effects, but DU is not a health hazard unless it is taken into the body in large doses. The alpha particle of depleted uranium only travels a few centimeters and can be stopped by a sheet of paper, so unless its inside your body, it can't hurt you unless you spend a day rolling around naked in a pile of the stuff.

You are right about the effects of DU on animals being well documented, and the findings seem to support what I've been saying. In rats that have been given doses of DU equal to that found in the 20 Gulf War veterans I mentioned earlier, the most signifigant effect was slight weight loss. Only when given very high doses of DU (5X higher than any reported in Gulf War veterans) did the rats show reduction of nueronal activity in the hippocampus. The study clearly showed that DU cannot be responsible for the things conspiracy nuts claim it to be.


the study your talking about was only a 6 month study. It also observed that it takes a lot less Uranium than previously thought to damage the brain.

There have also been other studys done showing that veterans with internally retained DU fragments might be more exposed to cancer and leukemia risks.

And even more studys document the damaging effects of uranium assumption on the reproductive cycle (reduced fertility, miscarriages, abortions, congenital defects at birth) of small laboratory mammals (mice, hamsters)...




The U.S. Army has commissioned some research into risks and harms of depleted uranium. Scientific documents produced by the Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute write of the "numerous unanswered questions about its [of DU] long term health effects", state that "moderate exposure to either DU or uranium presents a significant toxicological threat" [34] and strongly suggest "low dose DU induced carcinogenesis" which might affect military personnel following shrapnel wounds or inhalation [35]. The above mentioned research projects, in particular, focus on finding in advance complete toxicologic information for possible replacement materials for depleted uranium in projectiles, such as tungsten alloys, and on developing drugs capable of suppressing the biochemical process by which DU supposedly generates tumoral forms in the human body. The same institution is also working on methods allowing a more rapid and efficient detection of uranium contamination in human beings [36] and has developed a standardized procedure for medical assistance to military personnel exposed to depleted uranium contamination. [37]



You should also take a look at the stats from Iraq:

Following the first gulf war, scientists at the Basra hospital and university have monitored the incidence of leukaemias and other malignancies among children in the Basra area, and of congenital malformations in newborn children. The data for the period 1990-2001 show an incidence increase of 426% for general malignancies, 366% for leukemias and of over 600% for birth defects, with all series showing a roughly increasing pattern with time. These data, being the largest set of epidemiological data available for the Iraqi population, have received considerable attention; and since it reported a very large increase in those pathologies which are known or strongly suspected to be related to uranium poisoning, it has been natural to consider the possibility that such increase had indeed been caused by depleted uranium contamination. The connection, however, is far from being obvious or proven: first of all, there is a considerable delay (at least ten years) between the occurrence of contaminations and the peak of incidence of malformations and malignancies, which leads to speculative hypotheses about the process of accumulation of uranium in the human body; and secondarily, there could be other causes or concurrent causes, for example different kinds of pollution related or unrelated to the war (e.g. burning oil wells), or the 1990-2003 Iraq sanctions which led to a collapse of the Iraqi economy and in general to a dramatic impoverishment of the population with a sharp decrease of nutritional and hygienic conditions (which alone, however, cannot explain why the increase in congenital defects is the highest observed). In general, the prevailing scientific view on the matter [26],[27],[28] is that such data, and other scarce data available, do not conclusively prove a poisoning effect of depleted uranium; but that the possibility exists and cannot be ruled out either, and so a precautionary principle would suggest to suspend the use of such weapons.

Basrah_birth_defects.gif



It must be real easy to just dismiss something like this as a conspiracy theory. I guess that makes it easier for you to just close your eyes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome

In 2001, a study was published in Military Medicine that found DU in the urine of Gulf War veterans [8]. Another study, published by Health Physics in 2004, also showed DU in the urine of Gulf War veterans [9]. A study of UK veterans who thought they might have been exposed to DU showed aberrations in their white blood cell chromosomes. [10] Mice immune cells exposed to uranium exhibit abnormalities [11].

Increases in the rate of birth defects for children born to Gulf War veterans have been reported. A 2001 survey of 15,000 U.S. Gulf War combat veterans and 15,000 control veterans found that the Gulf War veterans were 1.8 (fathers) to 2.8 (mothers) times as likely to report having children with birth defects [12]. In early 2004, the UK Pensions Appeal Tribunal Service attributed birth defect claims from a February 1991 Gulf War combat veteran to depleted uranium poisoning [37] [38].

In 2005, uranium metalworkers at a Bethlehem plant near Buffalo, New York, exposed to frequent occupational uranium inhalation risks, were alleged by non-scientific sources to have the same patterns of symptoms and illness as Gulf War Syndrome victims [39] [40].


In November, 2004, the anonymously-funded British inquiry headed by Lord Lloyd ([45]) concluded, for the first time, that thousands of UK and US Gulf War veterans were made ill by their service. The report claimed that Gulf veterans were twice as likely to suffer from ill health than if they had been deployed elsewhere, and that the illnesses suffered were the result of a combination of causes. These included multiple injections of vaccines, the use of organophosphate pesticides to spray tents, low level exposure to nerve gas, and the inhalation of depleted uranium dust. [46][47] The report was the first to suggest a direct link between military service in the Persian Gulf and illnesses suffered by veterans of that war and directly contradicts other theories which have suggested GWI is not a physical illness, but a response to the stresses of war.

Although not identifying Gulf War syndrome by name, in June of 2003 the High Court of England and Wales upheld a claim by Shaun Rusling that the depression, eczema, fatigue, nausea and breathing problems that he experienced after returning from the Gulf War were attributed to his military service.

A 2004 British study comparing 24,000 Gulf War veterans to a control group of 18,000 men found that those who had taken part in the Gulf war have lower fertility and are 40 to 50% more likely to be unable to start a pregnancy. Among Gulf war soldiers, failure to conceive was 2.5% vs. 1.7% in the control group, and the rate of miscarriage was 3.4% vs. 2.3%. These differences are small but statistically significant. [48]

In January 2006, a study led by Melvin Blanchard and published by the Journal of Epidemiology, part of the "National Health Survey of Gulf War-Era Veterans and Their Families", stated that veterans deployed in the Persian Gulf War had nearly twice the prevalence of chronic multisymptom illness (CMI), a cluster of symptoms similar to a set of conditions often called Gulf War Syndrome. [49]



Its certainly more than just a stupid conspiracy theory dont you think?
 
The stats from Iraq can easily be explained by the use of chemical weapons on civilians by your good buddy Saddam. The chemicals he used on the Kurds are known human carcinogens. The same cannot be said for depleted uranium.

As I said before, there have been no studies that have conclusively linked low doses of depleted uranium to any adverse side effect. Until you can produce medical proof, you have no case.
 
The stats from Iraq can easily be explained by the use of chemical weapons on civilians by your good buddy Saddam.
thats a stretch and what of Afghanistan then?.........or how about KOSOVO

The chemicals he used on the Kurds are known human carcinogens. The same cannot be said for depleted uranium.
Oh i see your angle now, a technicality debate .....ok so it isnt a proven carcinogen.... I suppose that, and the US Govrnments claims combined, are enough evidence to suggest that DU is harmless.... we all should have no worries.....sorry, i cant and dont agree with that line of logic...but your always welcomed to your opinion

As I said before, there have been no studies that have conclusively linked low doses of depleted uranium to any adverse side effect. Until you can produce medical proof, you have no case.

well that is in large because the areas where the DU is the most prevalent are still in the throes of war.The countries involved are far to busy trying to stay solvent to effect any type of major study at this time ...the DU has been an issue since 2002 its 2007 only five years have passed


Barely enough time to get into a REAL study of the effects .and with all of those Bullets, and Bombs, continuing to drop all over the place, im SURE its not a priority.....and as i say, In my Opinion the FEDS are covering it up? so why would they bother to do a REAL study, when they can rely on these MINI studies, like the 6 month one you pointed too? I mean the people seem to believe them at face....why bother right?[/b][/color]
 
You obviously don't know jack about DU. People exposed, don't die from the Radiation. MOnths or Years later, they have babies born dead, or retarded and or deformed, that is if they aren't sterile from the exposure, years later they may develop various health problems and die.

Its not like they get exposed and right away are sick.

Actually very severe radiation could do just that.
 
well that is in large because the areas where the DU is the most prevalent are still in the throes of war.The countries involved are far to busy trying to stay solvent to effect any type of major study at this time ...the DU has been an issue since 2002 its 2007 only five years have passed


Barely enough time to get into a REAL study of the effects .and with all of those Bullets, and Bombs, continuing to drop all over the place, im SURE its not a priority.....and as i say, In my Opinion the FEDS are covering it up? so why would they bother to do a REAL study, when they can rely on these MINI studies, like the 6 month one you pointed too? I mean the people seem to believe them at face....why bother right?[/b][/color]

It would be a stretch for cancer in Afghanistan or Kosovo, if there were actually substantial increases in medical problems related to radiation in those countries, which there are not. And while we're on the subject, if DU caused cancer, we should be seeing its effects in every region that has seen any military action by any NATO nation, but we have not. Do I really have to keep saying that you have to provide medical evidence to make a case? Or are you going to keep throwing speculations at me?
 
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060503&articleId=2374


Dr. Jawad Al-Ali (55), director of the Oncology Center at the largest hospital in Basra, Iraq stated, at a recent ( 2003) conference in Japan:

"Two strange phenomena have come about in Basra which I have never seen before. The first is double and triple cancers in one patient. For example, leukemia and cancer of the stomach. We had one patient with 2 cancers - one in his stomach and kidney. Months later, primary cancer was developing in his other kidney--he had three different cancer types. The second is the clustering of cancer in families. We have 58 families here with more than one person affected by cancer. Dr Yasin, a general Surgeon here has two uncles, a sister and cousin affected with cancer. Dr Mazen, another specialist, has six family members suffering from cancer. My wife has nine members of her family with cancer".

"Children in particular are susceptible to DU poisoning. They have a much higher absorption rate as their blood is being used to build and nourish their bones and they have a lot of soft tissues. Bone cancer and leukemia used to be diseases affecting them the most, however, cancer of the lymph system which can develop anywhere on the body, and has rarely been seen before the age of 12 is now also common.",


====================



Dr. Keith Baverstock, The World Health Organization's chief expert on radiation and health for 11 years and author of an unpublished study has charged that his report " on the cancer risk to civilians in Iraq from breathing uranium contaminated dust " was also deliberately suppressed.

The information released by the U.S. Dept. of Defense is not reliable, according to some sources even within the military.

In 1997, while citing experiments, by others, in which 84 percent of dogs exposed to inhaled uranium died of cancer of the lungs, Dr. Asaf Durakovic, then Professor of Radiology and Nuclear Medicine at Georgetown University in Washington was quoted as saying,

"The [US government's] Veterans Administration asked me to lie about the risks of incorporating depleted uranium in the human body."


At that time Dr. Durakovic was a colonel in the U.S. Army. He has since left the military, to found the Uranium Medical Research Center, a privately funded organization with headquarters in Canada.


================

Doug Rokke, U.S. Army contractor who headed a clean-up of depleted uranium after the first Gulf War states:,

"Depleted uranium is a crime against God and humanity."

Rokke's own crew, a hundred employees, was devastated by exposure to the fine dust. He stated:

"When we went to the Gulf, we were all really healthy,"

After performing clean-up operations in the desert (mistakenly without protective gear), 30 members of his staff died, and most others"including Rokke himself"developed serious health problems. Rokke now has reactive airway disease, neurological damage, cataracts, and kidney problems.

"We warned the Department of Defense in 1991 after the Gulf War. Their arrogance is beyond comprehension.


Yet the D.O.D still insists such ingestion is "not sufficient to make troops seriously ill in most cases."

Then why did it make the clean up crew seriously or terminally ill in nearly all cases?


Marion Falk, a retired chemical physicist who built nuclear bombs for more than 20 years at Lawrence Livermore Lab, was asked if he thought that DU weapons operate in a similar manner as a dirty bomb.

"That's exactly what they are. They fit the description of a dirty bomb in every way."


According to Falk, more than 30 percent of the DU fired from the cannons of U.S. tanks is reduced to particles one-tenth of a micron (one millionth of a meter) in size or smaller on impact. "The larger the bang" the greater the amount of DU that is dispersed into the atmosphere, Falk said. With the larger missiles and bombs, nearly 100 percent of the DU is reduced to radioactive dust particles of the "micron size" or smaller, he said.

When asked if the main purpose for using it was for destroying things and killing people, Falk was more specific:

"I would say that it is the perfect weapon for killing lots of people."


When a DU round or bomb strikes a hard target, most of its kinetic energy is converted to heat " sufficient heat to ignite the DU. From 40% to 70% of the DU is converted to extremely fine dust particles of ceramic uranium oxide (primarily dioxide, though other formulations also occur). Over 60% of these particles are smaller than 5 microns in diameter, about the same size as the cigarette ash particles in cigarette smoke and therefore respirable.

Because conditions are so chaotic in Iraq, the medical infrastructure has been greatly compromised. In terms of both cancer and birth defects due to DU, only a small fraction of the cases are being reported.

Doctors in southern Iraq are making comparisons to the birth defects that followed the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WWII. They have numerous photos of infants born without brains, with their internal organs outside their bodies, without sexual organs, without spines, and the list of deformities goes on an on. Such birth defects were extremely rare in Iraq prior to the large scale use of DU. Weapons. Now they are commonplace. In hospitals across Iraq, the mothers are no longer asking, "Doctor, is it a boy or girl?" but rather, "Doctor, is it normal?" The photos are horrendous, they can be viewed on the following website
 
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060503&articleId=2374


Not only are we poisoning the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, but we are making a concerted effort to keep out specialists from other countries who can help. The U.S. Military doesn"t want the rest of the world to find out what we have done.

Such relatively swift development of cancers has been reported by doctors in hospitals treating civilians following NATO bombing with DU in Yugoslavia in 1998-1999 and the US military invasion of Iraq using DU for the first time in 1991. Medical experts report that this phenomenon of multiple malignancies from unrelated causes has been unknown until now and is a new syndrome associated with internal DU exposure.

Just 467 US personnel were wounded in the three-week Persian Gulf War in 1990-1991. Out of 580,400 soldiers who served in Gulf War I, 11,000 are dead, and by 2000 there were 325,000 on permanent medical disability. This astounding number of disabled vets means that a decade later, 56 percent of those soldiers who served in the first Gulf War now have medical problems.

Although not reported in the mainstream American press, a recent Tokyo tribunal, guided by the principles of International Criminal Law and International Humanitarian Law, found President George W. Bush guilty of war crimes. On March 14, 2004, Nao Shimoyachi, reported in The Japan Times that President Bush was found guilty "for attacking civilians with indiscriminate weapons and other arms,"and the "tribunal also issued recommendations for banning Depleted Uranium shells and other weapons that indiscriminately harm people." Although this was a "Citizen's Court" having no legal authority, the participants were sincere in their determination that international laws have been violated and a war crimes conviction is warranted.

Troops involved in actual combat are not the only servicemen reporting symptoms. Four soldiers from a New York Army National Guard company serving in Iraq are among several members of the same company, the 442nd Military Police, who say they have been battling persistent physical ailments that began last summer in the Iraqi town of Samawah.

"I got sick instantly in June," said Staff Sgt. Ray Ramos, a Brooklyn housing cop. "My health kept going downhill with daily headaches, constant numbness in my hands and rashes on my stomach."

Dr. Asaf Durakovic, UMRC founder, and nuclear medicine expert examined and tested nine soldiers from the company says that four "almost certainly" inhaled radioactive dust from exploded American shells manufactured with depleted uranium. Laboratory tests revealed traces of two manmade forms of uranium in urine samples from four of the soldiers.
 
http://www.sierratimes.com/03/05/02/article_io.htm

Dr. Asaf Durakovic, a professor of nuclear medicine at Georgetown University, is a former army medical expert. He told nuclear scientists in Paris last year that tens of thousands of sick British and American soldiers are now dying from radiation they encountered during Gulf War I. He found that 62 percent of sick vets tested have uranium isotopes in their organs, bones, brains and urine.(14) Laboratories in Switzerland and Finland corroborated his findings.

In other studies, some sick vets were found to be expressing uranium in even their semen. Their sexual partners often complained of a burning sensation during intercourse, followed by their own debilitating illnesses.(15)

Nothing compares to the astronomical cancer rates and birth defects suffered by the Iraqi people who have endured vicious nuclear chastisement for years.(16) U.S. air attacks against Iraq since 1993 have undoubtedly employed nuclear munitions. Pictures of grotesquely deformed Iraqi infants born since 1991 are overwhelming.(17) Like those born to Gulf War I vets, many babies born to troops now in Iraq will also be afflicted with hideous deformities, neurological damage and/or blood and respiratory disorders.(18)



snip

================

Afghanistan's new president, Hamid Karzai, is a puppet installed by Washington. Under the protection of American soldiers, Karzai's regime is setting a new record for opium production. Both UN and U.S. reports confirm that the huge Afghani opium harvest of 2002 makes Afghanistan the world's leading opium producer.(34) Thanks to nuclear weapons, Afghanistan is now safe for the Bush-Cheney narcotics industry.(35) ABC News asserts that keeping the "peace" in Afghanistan will require decades of allied occupation.(36) For years to come, "peacekeepers" will be eating, drinking and breathing the "hot" carcinogenic pollution they have helped the Pentagon inflict upon that nation for organized crime.

snip

=============
 
As I mentioned before, Saddam Hussain put tons of known carcinogens into the soil of Iraq when he used chemical weapons on civilians. If you want to use anything from Iraq as evidence in this, youve got to first conclusively prove that any illness from Iraq was not caused by these chemicals. You have shown nothing linking depleted uranium to any health problems. You simply say soldiers go to Iraq and then they get sick. There is no logical reasoning behind blaming depleted uranium for the sickness, especially since there are tons of other carcinogens already present in the area from the past war crimes committed by Saddam Hussain.

P.S. Try getting some unbiased reports next time.
 
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As I mentioned before, Saddam Hussain put tons of known carcinogens into the soil of Iraq when he used chemical weapons on civilians.

These reports are concerning not "carcinogens" but URANIUM. And the fact that it is making soldiers and civilians sick...the Uranium is turning up in urine and other places as well and there is evidence here to suggest that The D.U. is the underlying cause


If you want to use anything from Iraq as evidence in this, youve got to first conclusively prove that any illness from Iraq was not caused by these chemicals.
Uranium........not chemicals URANIUM

You have shown nothing linking depleted uranium to any health problems. You simply say soldiers go to Iraq and then they get sick. There is no logical reasoning behind blaming depleted uranium for the sickness,
yeah i mean lets disregard theyre stories, lets disregard the fact that they are Pissing Urine, lets forget the fact that some of them are passing Uranium through theyre semen. and we can discount all the dis-figured babies they have borne as well,,,,,must just be some co-incidence eh?


especially since there are tons of other carcinogens already present in the area from the past war crimes committed by Saddam Hussain.
we arent talking about them are we? those are not what is being found in blood and urine samples and sometimes even semen samples its URANIUM.......not some other carcinogen or chemical URANIUM
P.S. Try getting some unbiased reports next time.
no more Biased than a US GOVT website huh?
 
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