No Hell & everyone gets saved.

[Openmind]

Listening to one's own 'little voice' allows for rationalization which is no guarantee of right and wrong. Its subject to being just what you really want to do.

And listening to the rationalization of people or media guarantees that you will be wrong!

If you don't trust your own sense of fairness and your honesty compass. . . if you can't trust that your parents have model through integrity and honesty what is right and wrong, or if you have not learned from them, how can you trust total strangers to "know better? Or a 4000 year old book that was nothing more than "talk stories" of a people trying very hard to "follow their conscience?"

 

[Pandora]

"Absolute of right and wrong? where do you finf those? In the Bible?

There are so many things in the Bible who are Absolutely WRONG, that if one follows the literal word of the bible without listening to one's conscience and without using one's God given free will and ability to THINK, one could turn into a monster!

Do not murder
do not commit adultery
do not covet your neighbors property
honor your mother and father
do not bare false witness against your neighbor (lie)

stuff like that its part of the ten commandments or ten words.
God did write his laws in our hearts but some people reject it and its your right to do that if you want. Just pay the consequences

 

[dogtowner]

And listening to the rationalization of people or media guarantees that you will be wrong!

If you don't trust your own sense of fairness and your honesty compass. . . if you can't trust that your parents have model through integrity and honesty what is right and wrong, or if you have not learned from them, how can you trust total strangers to "know better? Or a 4000 year old book that was nothing more than "talk stories" of a people trying very hard to "follow their conscience?"

I don't trust people. Being schooled Catholic seems to have either not worked or its something else the RCC gets wrong. I was fortunate to have Christian parents to serve as an example but as they are only human they could not be followed slavishly. Putting fairness first will color a y sense of honesty. Start with right and wrong and you might be ok.

 

[dogtowner]

Do not murder
do not commit adultery
do not covet your neighbors property
honor your mother and father
do not bare false witness against your neighbor (lie)

stuff like that its part of the ten commandments or ten words.
God did write his laws in our hearts but some people reject it and its your right to do that if you want. Just pay the consequences

pretty simple huh ?

 

[Pandora]

pretty simple huh ?

Yeah for most


I have a hard time believing that someone could spend years in religious school yet not know the simple basic ten commandments

 

[dogtowner]

Yeah for most


I have a hard time believing that someone could spend years in religious school yet not know the simple basic ten commandments

or the job of the Holy Spirit. but to be fair, the RCC may fail to teach thisnot RCC so I don't know.

 

[Pandora]

or the job of the Holy Spirit. but to be fair, the RCC may fail to teach thisnot RCC so I don't know.

I guess that could be true, most catholics I know never really read the bible but instead listen to the priest. But even with that hasn't every one seen the ten commandments? Heck there is even a cartoon version

 

[dogtowner]

I guess that could be true, most catholics I know never really read the bible but instead listen to the priest. But even with that hasn't every one seen the ten commandments? Heck there is even a cartoon version

true enough but some people have a hard time with rules. easier to use other criteria to obtain the result you feel like.

 

[Openmind]

Do not murder
do not commit adultery
do not covet your neighbors property
honor your mother and father
do not bare false witness against your neighbor (lie)

stuff like that its part of the ten commandments or ten words.
God did write his laws in our hearts but some people reject it and its your right to do that if you want. Just pay the consequences

And you really think that those ten commandments are not "natural" instincts of within people's conscience? Do you really think that, anyone but a psychopath needs to read the ten commandments to KNOW that it is wrong to kill, or that it is wrong to steal, or that it is wrong to betray your loved one?

In the other hand. . .honoring your mother and father is all relative! Why would a child who has been abused all his life be "forced" to honor the cruelty and sadism of people, just because they are his mother and father?

Also, it seems that, no matter WHERE we get the drive to recognize what is right or wrong, many of us (I would say ALL of us) fail to follow those commands at times. . .and it seems that if the ONLY thing that keeps us from straying from those commands is the "fear" of "hell," it sure is not very effective! A lot less effective, in my opinion, than having to live with the nagging inner feeling that I have failed to treat another person the way I would like to be treated.

It is NOT about knowing or not knowing the ten commandments. .it is about whether we internalize the ten commandments, whether we reject them, or whether we live our life following the basic goodness that I believe is in EVERYONE's heart.

 

[Openmind]

Do not murder
do not commit adultery
do not covet your neighbors property
honor your mother and father
do not bare false witness against your neighbor (lie)

stuff like that its part of the ten commandments or ten words.
God did write his laws in our hearts but some people reject it and its your right to do that if you want. Just pay the consequences

The ten commandments are nothing more than the laws of decency that God wishes for us "felt" in one man's heart!. . .And the ability of Moses to express those feelings of right and wrong in a way that his people could understand.

There are just as many people who "pretend" to follow the WRITTEN commandments who in reality reject them by not applying them, than there are people who don't care about the written ten commandments, and follow the innate "compass" and thrive to be and do RIGHT.

 

[dogtowner]

And you really think that those ten commandments are not "natural" instincts of within people's conscience? Do you really think that, anyone but a psychopath needs to read the ten commandments to KNOW that it is wrong to kill, or that it is wrong to steal, or that it is wrong to betray your loved one?

In the other hand. . .honoring your mother and father is all relative! Why would a child who has been abused all his life be "forced" to honor the cruelty and sadism of people, just because they are his mother and father?

Also, it seems that, no matter WHERE we get the drive to recognize what is right or wrong, many of us (I would say ALL of us) fail to follow those commands at times. . .and it seems that if the ONLY thing that keeps us from straying from those commands is the "fear" of "hell," it sure is not very effective! A lot less effective, in my opinion, than having to live with the nagging inner feeling that I have failed to treat another person the way I would like to be treated.

It is NOT about knowing or not knowing the ten commandments. .it is about whether we internalize the ten commandments, whether we reject them, or whether we live our life following the basic goodness that I believe is in EVERYONE's heart.

inyour earlier example of the kid stealing the candy he was obviously not naturally able to know that this was wrong. the liar rationaizes it away routinely.

the abused kid can honor his parents role even if their acts do not reflect right from wrong.

hell not working for you ? then repent and try to do better for love. if you cant get past doing it for love of God then do it for Gaia or Krishna or whatever.

you having some education in socialwork should now this is not natural in everyone's heart.

 

[Openmind]

inyour earlier example of the kid stealing the candy he was obviously not naturally able to know that this was wrong. the liar rationaizes it away routinely.

the abused kid can honor his parents role even if their acts do not reflect right from wrong.

hell not working for you ? then repent and try to do better for love. if you cant get past doing it for love of God then do it for Gaia or Krishna or whatever.

you having some education in socialwork should now this is not natural in everyone's heart.

I beg to differ! The kid who stole the candy KNEW it was wrong. . .have you ever watched a kid steal a candy? He will not do it openly, he will sneak around (although most adults can figure out what he is doing), and hide to eat it, and if confronted and asked if he stole the candy. . . he will probably try to deny it at first!
Why do you think that is? Because he knows that there is "something" wrong about taking the candy without approval from his parents. . .

The abuse kid can "honor his parents role?" Are you for real! That is exactly what an keep too many abuse kids from receiving help! They try to cover up, they don't want to believe their parents are bad. . .they are ashame!
And then, if they do not end up accepting that what their parents have done to him is WRONG, and EVIL, and that they deserve NO RESPECT, they risk to turn out into abusers themselves when they grow up!

Aren't you the one who stated " Respect needs to be earn," well, the "honor" referred to in the 10 commandments is basically "respect for your parents." And if a child is taught to ignore his inner knowledge that his parents beating him is WRONG, and not worthy of respect, he lives the rest of his life with that incongruency and may need a LOT of mental health (counseling, etc. ..) to not fall into the same behavior that he was told he should "respect" from his parents!

Dear, I do all these because my conscience and my personal relationship with my inner, universal God drives me to be as good a person as I humanly can. I do not need hell, and I do have a lot of love, both within me for others, and from a few others towards me.

It's amazing that you feel someone MUST believe and follow manmade dogmas to or risk to be a monster!

Do you realize how many people do NOT believe in ANY God, and are very decent, intelligent, giving people?

And do you realize how many people who call themselves Christians, or Muslims, are acting in evil ways that totally negate most of the 10 commandments?

 

[dogtowner]

I beg to differ! The kid who stole the candy KNEW it was wrong. . .have you ever watched a kid steal a candy? He will not do it openly, he will sneak around (although most adults can figure out what he is doing), and hide to eat it, and if confronted and asked if he stole the candy. . . he will probably try to deny it at first!
Why do you think that is? Because he knows that there is "something" wrong about taking the candy without approval from his parents. . .

The abuse kid can "honor his parents role?" Are you for real! That is exactly what an keep too many abuse kids from receiving help! They try to cover up, they don't want to believe their parents are bad. . .they are ashame!
And then, if they do not end up accepting that what their parents have done to him is WRONG, and EVIL, and that they deserve NO RESPECT, they risk to turn out into abusers themselves when they grow up!

Aren't you the one who stated " Respect needs to be earn," well, the "honor" referred to in the 10 commandments is basically "respect for your parents." And if a child is taught to ignore his inner knowledge that his parents beating him is WRONG, and not worthy of respect, he lives the rest of his life with that incongruency and may need a LOT of mental health (counseling, etc. ..) to not fall into the same behavior that he was told he should "respect" from his parents!

Dear, I do all these because my conscience and my personal relationship with my inner, universal God drives me to be as good a person as I humanly can. I do not need hell, and I do have a lot of love, both within me for others, and from a few others towards me.

It's amazing that you feel someone MUST believe and follow manmade dogmas to or risk to be a monster!

Do you realize how many people do NOT believe in ANY God, and are very decent, intelligent, giving people?

And do you realize how many people who call themselves Christians, or Muslims, are acting in evil ways that totally negate most of the 10 commandments?

I see kids take things that are theirs all the time (adults as well) and think nothing of it all because they want what they want.

You said Obama deserved respect theoretically because of his office. As he failed to respect his office, he akes it impossible to respect even that while he is in it. try to comprehend the difference between role and warped individual. as to abuse your theory of inate goodness fails as the kid would now that behavior was wrong and that they need to be required to perform their position. the kids perpetuate the problem by rationalization that mayve there will be less abuse if they go along.

Christians understand that they are weak enough to sin but that they are strong enough to want and get forgiveness. Don't what muslims do.

 

[Pandora]

And you really think that those ten commandments are not "natural" instincts of within people's conscience? Do you really think that, anyone but a psychopath needs to read the ten commandments to KNOW that it is wrong to kill, or that it is wrong to steal, or that it is wrong to betray your loved one?

In the other hand. . .honoring your mother and father is all relative! Why would a child who has been abused all his life be "forced" to honor the cruelty and sadism of people, just because they are his mother and father?

Also, it seems that, no matter WHERE we get the drive to recognize what is right or wrong, many of us (I would say ALL of us) fail to follow those commands at times. . .and it seems that if the ONLY thing that keeps us from straying from those commands is the "fear" of "hell," it sure is not very effective! A lot less effective, in my opinion, than having to live with the nagging inner feeling that I have failed to treat another person the way I would like to be treated.

It is NOT about knowing or not knowing the ten commandments. .it is about whether we internalize the ten commandments, whether we reject them, or whether we live our life following the basic goodness that I believe is in EVERYONE's heart.

You asked me in a post where in the bible does it give absolutes on sin and I pointed out to you the ten commandments now you move the bar again.... its a bit like chasing a muddy pig

 

[Openmind]

I see kids take things that are theirs all the time (adults as well) and think nothing of it all because they want what they want

.

If those things are THEIRS. . .they are not stealing! So what's wrong with it?

You said Obama deserved respect theoretically because of his office. As he failed to respect his office, he akes it impossible to respect even that while he is in it. try to comprehend the difference between role and warped individual. as to abuse your theory of inate goodness fails as the kid would now that behavior was wrong and that they need to be required to perform their position. the kids perpetuate the problem by rationalization that mayve there will be less abuse if they go along.

Who said he "failed to respect his office?" You?, the GOP? the Obama haters?
I (and MANY other people) find that he is doing a great job in the Office of the President. Your "judgement" of the work President Obama is doing is extremely subjective, and is based on no facts, but on "ideology!"

I totally disagree with your view of "sin" and "right and wrong." But then again. . .what is new!

Christians understand that they are weak enough to sin but that they are strong enough to want and get forgiveness. Don't what muslims do.

Too many Christians are DEPENDING on "forgiveness" and shamefully ignore their own conscience AND even the 10 commandments.

I much prefer to depend on my conscience to know when I am doing right and when I am moving toward "wrong." I do not need to be told by a minister or by a priest when I do wrong. . .I KNOW!

And I do not "expect" forgiveness given by "confession" to a man, even if that man has received the approval and "title" as a Minister or Priest. I only respond to God, and God is not in a Church, but he is within me, and within EVERYONE.

I believe that we are all born with the potential for good, and the potential for evil. . .whether "good" or "evil" wins at the end depends on which we "feed." By focusing on "sin" rather than focusing on goodness, we tend to "feed" the evil within us.

This is why, although raised a Christian, and although I continue to believe in Jesus Christ, I find that the beliefs associated with Buddhism are a lot more in line with my own search for goodness and congruity with God.

By the way, I believe Thomas Paine said it best: