Obama and Rev. Wright

[bewitched]

where is Jesse, and Sharpton now?
this Rev Wright is a piece of work, can you say "racist"?

 

[Popeye]

where is Jesse, and Sharpton now?
this Rev Wright is a piece of work, can you say "racist"?

Do you have similar problems with McCain supporters and friends Revs Hagee and Parsley? Hagee, among other things, has called the Catholic church, "the great whore" and claims hurricane Katrina was God's way of getting back at New Orleans for holding a gay parade. Parsley is right up your alley, as he has called for the complete extermination of the Islamic religion.

Here is some more on the double standard being employed:

Obama's Minister Committed "Treason"
but When my Father Said the Same Thing He Was a Republican Hero

When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.

Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the "murder of the unborn," has become "Sodom" by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, "under the judgment of God." They call America evil and warn of immanent destruction. By comparison Obama's minister's shouted "controversial" comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton.

Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation's sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party. (This was while I was my father's sidekick before I dropped out of the evangelical movement altogether.) We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Well, did McCain consider these people personal friends? Did either of them preside at his wedding?

Have you actually heard any of Reverend Wright's ranting and raving? The man sounds like he needs his head examined.

 

[asur]

Obama still belongs to that great church of hate.
And he's the democrats best candidate for president?

He's appears to be a hater and perfect for the democratic ticket.

Hillary and Bill Clinton have said they would love for him to serve as Hillary's VP?

A powerful ticket they say. Hmm...

 

[bewitched]

Obama still belongs to that great church of hate.
...

for 20 years.

 

[TruthAboveAll]

I seriously find this a problem. I've seen and heard these sermons. I'm not relying on someone else reading quotes of them. I've seen Al Sharpton defending Rev. Wright. I've seen Rev. Calvin Butts defend him.

Amazingly, the defense centers not only on the "double standard" or the selective circumstances. The defense cites that "African American" style of social preaching. According to the defenders, this type of preaching is common in the black churches of America.

I repeat. COMMON. That is a loaded word, in both directions. It does not mean that all black churches teach this hate-filled rhetoric. It also means that it's probably there more than any of us would care to see.

I've no defense for ANY Christian preaching hate. I don't care if he or she is black, white, yellow, brown, green or blue-in-the-face. Hate is hate, no matter what you use to label it or justify it.

It might be a good thing for this to come to light for a healthy national discussion. Is this the type of America any of us wants? And with all the accusations of the evil white European man it would seem that the bigger evil has been within, possibly causing and perpetuating higher levels of racial unrest than we should be seeing today.

Another of the common defenses cite situations from the 60's, 50's, and even earlier. I lived through the 60's and had wondered at times why we can't seem to get past it and grow, why there seems to have to be so much attention constantly on the differences. Now I understand in a graphic way, that much of this is actually from the black community itself. In general.

 

[bewitched]

then Obama says:
"And yet words on a parchment would not be enough to deliver slaves from bondage, or provide men and women of every color and creed their full rights and obligations as citizens of the United States. What would be needed were Americans in successive generations who were willing to do their part – through protests and struggle, on the streets and in the courts, through a civil war and civil disobedience and always at great risk - to narrow that gap between the promise of our ideals and the reality of their time."

this encouraging violence in the streets and is quite disturbing.

 

[9sublime]

Where does he encourage violence on the streets? When he says protest and struggle, civil war and civil disobedience? None of those have to be violent. Ever heard of non-violent civil disobedience and non-violent protest?

An educated American would realise the value of restricting the federal governments actions, often through civil disobedience, when they overstep the mark. However, your government has very cleverly manipulated YOU into a position where you believe that questioning its actions directly supports terrorism. Unfortunate circumstance.

 

[bewitched]

Where does he encourage violence on the streets? When he says protest and struggle, civil war and civil disobedience? None of those have to be violent. Ever heard of non-violent civil disobedience and non-violent protest?

An educated American would realise the value of restricting the federal governments actions, often through civil disobedience, when they overstep the mark. However, your government has very cleverly manipulated YOU into a position where you believe that questioning its actions directly supports terrorism. Unfortunate circumstance.

civil disobedience didn't say "non-violent" or does the phrase suggest non-violence!!! the civil right struggle of the 60's was quite violent.
and that's Obama's trick, he is vague enough for those who know there will be violence, and vague enough for naive white boys and girls to believe he means "peace and love".
taqiyya.

 

[9sublime]

Because he doesn't say non violence... he also didn't say violent protest, or ever make references to any civil disobedience in the past, violent or non-violent.

Once again, you are reading between the lines and extracting information that fits your cause, regardless of whether it is there or not.

I hope Obama gets elected so bad.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Obama just shot himself in the foot (actually, Rev. Wright did), and with his speech today, he shot himself in the other foot. (Would that be "giving it both barrels"?) This might rip the Democratic party apart at the convention.

He may have just handed the White House to John McCain.

 

[TruthAboveAll]

Do you have similar problems with McCain supporters and friends Revs Hagee and Parsley? Hagee, among other things, has called the Catholic church, "the great whore" and claims hurricane Katrina was God's way of getting back at New Orleans for holding a gay parade. Parsley is right up your alley, as he has called for the complete extermination of the Islamic religion.

Here is some more on the double standard being employed:

Okay, I read your link. It is another link in a long line of Frank Schaeffer's apparent attempts to qualify himself at the expense of offering his father and mother as sacrifice. If you'd like to read another "insider's" perspective on Frank Schaeffer and his self-lauded book and life's work at skewering Francis Schaeffer, check this one out: http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2008/002/1.32.html
It is an honest, heart-felt and intellectually honest review by a very close friend of the whole family.

Your citing of Hagee and Parsley are out of context and meaningless. Neither is the pastor of John McCain. He has not attended nor been a member of either church. Neither of these pastors are his spiritual adviser, and neither has retired from their ministry to participate in his campaign.

Hagee's comments must also be put in context. He is a firm subscriber to Biblical prophecy, and his comments are often his interpretations, his understanding of what the prophetic scriptures could mean. While his techniques may at times be strident, I think his criticism of the Catholic Church are also over-inflated. Yeah, sure. He does connect the Catholic Church with the Biblical terminology of "the great whore". I've heard him use that comparison, but it is about the Catholic Church as a socio-political power, not as the force it should be, and often is, for the spread of the love of God and the gospel message. I guess time will tell if his interpretation is right, but he is in no way advocating hatred or violence towards the individual Catholic or asking God to damn them. If any are damned or not, that will be between them and God.

The point is that it is absolutely ludicrous to use any and every one that supports McCain as a justification for the venom from the heart and mouth of the spiritual leader of Obama. I guess with 20 years of membership in this church, listening to this wonderful social gospel espoused as so necessary in the black community, it's no wonder that Michelle Obama is so hard pressed to find anything good to say about a country that has been of such personal benefit.

 

[Popeye]

then Obama says:
"And yet words on a parchment would not be enough to deliver slaves from bondage, or provide men and women of every color and creed their full rights and obligations as citizens of the United States. What would be needed were Americans in successive generations who were willing to do their part – through protests and struggle, on the streets and in the courts, through a civil war and civil disobedience and always at great risk - to narrow that gap between the promise of our ideals and the reality of their time."

this encouraging violence in the streets and is quite disturbing.

More nonsense, he's not encouraging violence, Obama is referring to the black struggle down through history, for equal rights. Something, that included protests and civil disobedience, reaching their pinnacle in the sixties in the civil rights movement through the leadership of MLK. A successful movement that is now part of the great history of this country.

It really is too bad that you reside with the minority, those that exhibit overt racist traits and would obviously have been more comfortable in the time of Bull Conner and Jim Crow.

 

[Popeye]

Okay, I read your link. It is another link in a long line of Frank Schaeffer's apparent attempts to qualify himself at the expense of offering his father and mother as sacrifice. If you'd like to read another "insider's" perspective on Frank Schaeffer and his self-lauded book and life's work at skewering Francis Schaeffer, check this one out: http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2008/002/1.32.html
It is an honest, heart-felt and intellectually honest review by a very close friend of the whole family.

Your citing of Hagee and Parsley are out of context and meaningless. Neither is the pastor of John McCain. He has not attended nor been a member of either church. Neither of these pastors are his spiritual adviser, and neither has retired from their ministry to participate in his campaign.

Hagee's comments must also be put in context. He is a firm subscriber to Biblical prophecy, and his comments are often his interpretations, his understanding of what the prophetic scriptures could mean. While his techniques may at times be strident, I think his criticism of the Catholic Church are also over-inflated. Yeah, sure. He does connect the Catholic Church with the Biblical terminology of "the great whore". I've heard him use that comparison, but it is about the Catholic Church as a socio-political power, not as the force it should be, and often is, for the spread of the love of God and the gospel message. I guess time will tell if his interpretation is right, but he is in no way advocating hatred or violence towards the individual Catholic or asking God to damn them. If any are damned or not, that will be between them and God.

The point is that it is absolutely ludicrous to use any and every one that supports McCain as a justification for the venom from the heart and mouth of the spiritual leader of Obama. I guess with 20 years of membership in this church, listening to this wonderful social gospel espoused as so necessary in the black community, it's no wonder that Michelle Obama is so hard pressed to find anything good to say about a country that has been of such personal benefit.

My real point, in demonstrating what I still beleive to be a discernible double standard, is who cares what some pastor says? The religious right has represented a core constituency within the Republican party for some 20 years. Yet, the Republican candidates, during this time, have been judged by their own words not the words of some televangelist or nutty pastor. All I, and other Obama supporters ask, is the same consideration. Judge Sen. Obama on his words, his actions, not the words and actions of another.

 

[asur]

Well Obama still is riding dirty with the hateful Mr. Wright.
I suspect Obama agrees with the Reverand's hate filled sermons, regardless
of what he claims now. Had he been smart, he would have just attended
a normal church, considering he was planning on a political career. Or
he could have left this church years ago.

But it appears this is only the tip
of his problems. Keep an eye on news to come.

Yes, he is still the best democratic candidate, but that's not saying alot.