Obama wants to legitimize the 20 million illegal aliens - do you agree?

Libsmasher

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Question Details: The southwestern united states is becoming de facto part of mexico. Illegal aliens are driving up medical costs because they go to emergency rooms and don't pay - the costs are shifted onto others. Several trauma centers in LA have closed because they've been bankrupted by non-paying illegals. Illegals are 25% of the prison population in CA. Illegals AREN'T doing the "jobs americans won't do" - Americans won't do them at the black market wage they pay illegals. Illegals are draining social services, corrupting officials and commercial entities, distorting our politics, and balkanizing our country - but Obama wants them all to stay. At exactly the time we need high quality immigrants, the dems, including Obama, want to dump mexico's underclass on us just to get more votes.
 
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heyjude

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McCain and Clinton also want to grant amnesty to all the illegals in this country. The only difference is Obama wants to give them driver's liscenses to swarm into the country.

It is going to be an interesting test to see if the POTUS or the American people is more powerful. I'm betting on us.
 

pocketfullofshells

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Guess what guys, no one is going to spend billions checking everyone and throwing them back to Mexico...leaving all there American born, American Kids here who are legal...Give up the pipe Dream, they are here and its to late. Stop more from crossing, and just make the ones here pay fines and get legal. You want to not pay for there medical as you claim? let them actuly be able to buy insurance, to get a job that pays for it.
 

Popeye

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I've got a novel idea. Let's start seriously prosecuting employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens. Once the jobs dry up, watch how the illegal problem begins to wane.

Problem is we've got employers who contribute to campaigns so that they can safely keep their cheap labor pool. What other reason can there be for not throwing such employers in jail? After all, they are by definition criminals. I love the way Republicans, in particular, just totally ignore this problem. Again, you want to stop illegal immigration punish the employers.
 

pocketfullofshells

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I've got a novel idea. Let's start seriously prosecuting employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens. Once the jobs dry up, watch how the illegal problem begins to wane.

Problem is we've got employers who contribute to campaigns so that they can safely keep their cheap labor pool. What other reason can there be for not throwing such employers in jail? After all, they are by definition criminals. I love the way Republicans, in particular, just totally ignore this problem. Again, you want to stop illegal immigration punish the employers.

its hard to enforce though unless you want to spend even more money and set up more and more people to go after them...and how? you just ask for all hispancs workings papers?
 

PLC1

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How do we know that Obama has any different stance on illegal immigration than McCain, Clinton, or Bush? None of them seem to get the idea that the American voters would like to secure the borders and control just who gets to come to the US and who doesn't. All of them are dancing to the tune of their sponsors, who like the cheap labor provided by illegal aliens. None of them really wants to do anything about it.
 

9sublime

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The Mexican border seems to be a steel fence and a few towers, while I have to wait in a 200 person long line to get from the UK to Florida having my face (sometimes iris) and fingerprints scanned, have my families passports, age and purpose in the US meticulously checked over averaging 2 or 3 minutes a person meaning a nice long wait at customs.

Maybe you should try swapping resources around a bit.
 

numinus

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Can anyone explain how legitimizing an illegal alien be any different from the same person remaining as an illegal alien -- other than being able to conveniently assess taxes?
 

vyo476

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Can anyone explain how legitimizing an illegal alien be any different from the same person remaining as an illegal alien -- other than being able to conveniently assess taxes?

No more threat of deportation, for one.

And then there's all those things that ask questions about nationality and citizenship that they wouldn't have to lie about. Lies have a tricky way of being found out - sometimes.
 

pocketfullofshells

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Can anyone explain how legitimizing an illegal alien be any different from the same person remaining as an illegal alien -- other than being able to conveniently assess taxes?

many reasons
1. Its easier to track them, with a legal name...not a alias, and a trail ( ownership, taxes, ext) the government will have a greater knowledge if needed about them

2. If you are illegal, its hard to Get a licence...thus you have to drive without one, you often don't have good training....Also far more likely to not be able to get insurance...meaning if you get hit by someone, there is no Insurance company cover you outside your own.

3. Normal Health care....you are forced in a Emergency to go and the government ends up with the bill....as non legal aliens are not able to get Health Insurance without using forged documents

4.Employers cant work you overtime, pay you less then min wage, work without meeting safe working conditions required by law, and other things...as Illegals cant report them...

5. Cant report a crime, Illegals are often targeted for crimes, due to the fact that they fear going to the police as it risks

Other issues would be that
Kids of Illegals,
A. May be legal citizens....but have there parents deported....Punishing the kids more then anyone, and the government then needs to find ways to deal with them
B. If not legal can have a hard time getting into schools, health care or other things that other kids get...they are Punished for the crimes of there parents.

Just a few things I'm sure someone who has looked at this more can bring up more issues. We do need to secure the borders, but we also need to give up the pipe dream about going threw sweeping the nation and sending everyone back. Even if that is one you want, its realy time to give up the dream and push to get real reform done now, rather then hope for this great purge that will never happen, while the border stays open and the problem gets worse.
 

PLC1

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There are a lot of good arguments for amnesty for illegals, but one fact cancels them all out:

Illegals were given amnesty back on '86, and the result was that the flood of illegal immigration became a torrent of illegal immigration. The word got around that it would be possible to sneak into the US, and become legitimate residents, maybe even citizens. It became a gold rush to high (relatively) wage jobs.

We can't afford to repeat that experiment. We have to insist that the current illegal aliens return to their native lands and apply for legal status there. To do otherwise is to simply open the borders.
 

heyjude

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PLC1, you are correct. Amenesty was a disaster. I could hardly believe Kennedy would try to do that to America after promising it was a one time thing. And after seeing the results of the last amnesty, we know better than to do it again.

Anyone who wants to come here needs to apply. And the law can find those who over stay their visas. Our government has been very reluctant to do so. That needs to change.
 

pocketfullofshells

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There are a lot of good arguments for amnesty for illegals, but one fact cancels them all out:

Illegals were given amnesty back on '86, and the result was that the flood of illegal immigration became a torrent of illegal immigration. The word got around that it would be possible to sneak into the US, and become legitimate residents, maybe even citizens. It became a gold rush to high (relatively) wage jobs.

We can't afford to repeat that experiment. We have to insist that the current illegal aliens return to their native lands and apply for legal status there. To do otherwise is to simply open the borders.

Thats why it must have a Secure Border as part of it, it did not before, and was a dumb as idea then.
 
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numinus

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many reasons
1. Its easier to track them, with a legal name...not a alias, and a trail ( ownership, taxes, ext) the government will have a greater knowledge if needed about them

2. If you are illegal, its hard to Get a licence...thus you have to drive without one, you often don't have good training....Also far more likely to not be able to get insurance...meaning if you get hit by someone, there is no Insurance company cover you outside your own.

3. Normal Health care....you are forced in a Emergency to go and the government ends up with the bill....as non legal aliens are not able to get Health Insurance without using forged documents

4.Employers cant work you overtime, pay you less then min wage, work without meeting safe working conditions required by law, and other things...as Illegals cant report them...

5. Cant report a crime, Illegals are often targeted for crimes, due to the fact that they fear going to the police as it risks

Other issues would be that
Kids of Illegals,
A. May be legal citizens....but have there parents deported....Punishing the kids more then anyone, and the government then needs to find ways to deal with them
B. If not legal can have a hard time getting into schools, health care or other things that other kids get...they are Punished for the crimes of there parents.

Just a few things I'm sure someone who has looked at this more can bring up more issues. We do need to secure the borders, but we also need to give up the pipe dream about going threw sweeping the nation and sending everyone back. Even if that is one you want, its realy time to give up the dream and push to get real reform done now, rather then hope for this great purge that will never happen, while the border stays open and the problem gets worse.

And making illegals legal wouldn't eliminate all the problems?
 
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