Obamacare undermines government

Dr.Who

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A fundamental basis of good governance is that the "rule of law" must prevail.

We must know that laws are applied equally. We can't have one law for one group of people or individual and another law for another group or individual.

When the rule of law is ignored good governance must suffer - which of course can only strengthen poor governance or no governance. And just what would poor governance look like when the government is the largest, most powerful shaker in the world?

Here is an article:

Question: What do the following have in common? Eckert Cold Storage Co., Kerly Homes of Yuma, Classic Party Rentals, West Coast Turf Inc., Ellenbecker Investment Group Inc., Only in San Francisco, Hotel Nikko, International Pacific Halibut Commission, City of Puyallup, Local 485 Health and Welfare Fund, Chicago Plastering Institute Health & Welfare Fund, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Tennessee, Teamsters Local 522 Fund Welfare Fund Roofers Division, StayWell Saipan Basic Plan, CIGNA, Caribbean Workers' Voluntary Employees' Beneficiary Health and Welfare Plan.

Answer: They are all among the 1,372 businesses, state and local governments, labor unions and insurers, covering 3,095,593 individuals or families, that have been granted a waiver from Obamacare by Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius.

All of which raises another question: If Obamacare is so great, why do so many people want to get out from under it?

More specifically, why are more than half of those 3,095,593 in plans run by labor unions, which were among Obamacare's biggest political supporters? Union members are only 12 percent of all employees but have gotten 50.3 percent of Obamacare waivers.

Just in April, Sebelius granted 38 waivers to restaurants, nightclubs, spas and hotels in former Speaker Nancy Pelosi's San Francisco congressional district. Pelosi's office said she had nothing to do with it.

On its website, HHS pledges that the waiver process will be transparent. But it doesn't list those whose requests for waivers have been denied.

It does say that requests are "reviewed on a case by case basis by Department officials who look at a series of factors including" -- and then listing two factors. And it refers you to another website that says that "several factors ... may be considered" -- and then lists six factors.

What other factors may be considered? Political contributions or connections? (Unions contributed $400 million to Democrats in the 2008 campaign cycle.) The websites don't say.

In his new book, "The Origins of Political Order," Francis Fukuyama identifies the chief building blocks of liberal democracy as a strong central state, a society strong enough to hold the state accountable and -- equally crucial -- the rule of law.

One basic principle of the rule of law is that laws apply to everybody. If the sign says "No Parking," you're not supposed to park there even if you're a pal of the alderman.

Another principle of the rule of law is that government can't make up new rules to help its cronies and hurt its adversaries except through due process, such as getting a legislature to pass a new law.

The Obamacare waiver process appears to violate that first rule. Two other recent Obama administration actions appear to violate the second.

One example is the National Labor Relations Board general counsel's action to prevent Boeing from building a $2 billion assembly plant for the 787 Dreamliner in South Carolina, which has a right-to-work law barring compulsory union membership. The NLRB says Boeing has to assemble the planes in non-right-to-work Washington state.

"I don't agree," says William Gould IV, NLRB chairman during the Bill Clinton years. "The Boeing case is unprecedented."

The other example is the Internal Revenue Service's attempt to levy a gift tax on donors to certain 501(c)(4) organizations that just happen to have spent money to elect Republicans.

A gift tax is normally assessed on transfers to children and other heirs that are designed to avoid estate taxes. It has been applied to political donations "rarely, if ever," according to New York Times reporter Stephanie Strom.

"The timing of the agency's moves, as the 2012 election cycle gets underway," continues Strom, is prompting some tax law and campaign finance experts to question whether the IRS could be sending a signal in an effort to curtail big donations."

In a Univision radio interview during the 2010 election cycle, Barack Obama urged Latinos not "to sit out the election instead of saying, 'We're going to punish our enemies and we're going to reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us.'"

Punishing enemies and rewarding friends -- politics Chicago style -- seems to be the unfiying principle that helps explain the Obamacare waivers, the NLRB action against Boeing and IRS's gift tax assault on 501(c)(4) donors.

They look like examples of crony capitalism, bailout favoritism and gangster government.

One thing they don't look like is the rule of law.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...law_to_reward_pals_punish_enemies_109993.html
 
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As an aside I would add that in my opinion the number one reason that the economy is not recovering is that the American people as a whole recognize that we do not have a rule of law - we cannot trust our government to act predictably and in the best interest of all Americans.

When the rules can change in the middle of the game it is safe for no one to play the game. The result is that those who would otherwise be building a great economy are sitting on the sidelines.
 
obama_death_care_shirt-p2356315227630384012rg0j_325.jpg

 
They look like examples of crony capitalism, bailout favoritism and gangster government.

I really hate when people misuse the term Capitalism... :mad:

"We're going to punish our enemies and we're going to reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us." - Obama

Fascist corporatism

Fascism's theory of economic corporatism involved management of sectors of the economy by government or privately controlled organizations (corporations). Each trade union or employer corporation would, theoretically, represent its professional concerns, especially by negotiation of labor contracts and the like. This method, it was theorized, could result in harmony amongst social classes. Authors have noted, however, that de facto economic corporatism was also used to reduce opposition and reward political loyalty.
Wait for it... Wait for it... Some simpleton will come along and claim that I'm calling Obama a Fascist. :rolleyes:

Obama isn't the cause of the problem, he's only a symptom of the problem. The Corporatist political system in America that allows politicians to punish political enemies while rewarding political friends is the problem.
 
As an aside I would add that in my opinion the number one reason that the economy is not recovering is that the American people as a whole recognize that we do not have a rule of law - we cannot trust our government to act predictably and in the best interest of all Americans.

When the rules can change in the middle of the game it is safe for no one to play the game. The result is that those who would otherwise be building a great economy are sitting on the sidelines.

You cannot be serious. You think that we don't have the rule of law?

The rules didn't change in the middle of the game. Waivers were already part of the law-and they are not permanent.
 
You cannot be serious. You think that we don't have the rule of law?

The rules didn't change in the middle of the game. Waivers were already part of the law-and they are not permanent.

You cannot seriously think that writing a law and including a process to apply it differently represents the rule of law.

Here is a definition of "rule of law":

"II. What is the Rule of Law?

The rule of law does not have a precise definition, and its meaning can vary between different nations and legal traditions. Generally, however, it can be understood as a legal-political regime under which the law restrains the government by promoting certain liberties and creating order and predictability regarding how a country functions. In the most basic sense, the rule of law is a system that attempts to protect the rights of citizens from arbitrary and abusive use of government power.

A. Elements of the Rule of Law

In his book The Morality of Law, American legal scholar Lon Fuller identified eight elements of law which have been recognized as necessary for a society aspiring to institute the rule of law. Fuller stated the following:

1. Laws must exist and those laws should be obeyed by all, including government officials.

2. Laws must be published.

3. Laws must be prospective in nature so that the effect of the law may only take place after the law has been passed. For example, the court cannot convict a person of a crime committed before a criminal statute prohibiting the conduct was passed.

4. Laws should be written with reasonable clarity to avoid unfair enforcement.

5. Law must avoid contradictions.

6. Law must not command the impossible.

7. Law must stay constant through time to allow the formalization of rules; however, law also must allow for timely revision when the underlying social and political circumstances have changed.

8. Official action should be consistent with the declared rule."

http://www.uiowa.edu/ifdebook/faq/Rule_of_Law.shtml

Obamacare fails (or has failed at some point) in every item!!!!
 
You're not thinking this through. Yes, it's perfectly plausible to make exceptions to a law within the law.
 
You're not thinking this through. Yes, it's perfectly plausible to make exceptions to a law within the law.

I would like to thank you for your contributions to the topic.



A FEW reasonable exceptions, yes. A Lot of exceptions apparently based on corporatism, no.

But let us suppose that it really did come down to just a few exceptions...what about the rest of the list of what constitutes good rule of law? A case can be made that every one of the eight criteria on that list were violated. A good case can be made for a majority of the list.
 
You're not thinking this through.

Which observations have you made regarding the thought process in my head? Do you want to comment on my post - great! My thoughts -not so great.

So far in the few exchanges you and I have had your comments have rubbed me the wrong way most of the time. For my part I am trying to make an effort to be a little extra courteous. Perhaps in my first statement to you I started things off on the wrong foot - lets start over.

I think it would also help if when you made comments you provided some substantiation and did not comment about my motives or internal thoughts that you clearly have no knowledge of.
 
Another example of how Obamacare (and Big Govt in general) destroys the rule of law, is in the huge maze of laws, restrictions, and regulations they put together, ostensibly to get done what they want.

When the number of laws rises to such huge numbers, it become nearly impossible to live a normal life without tripping over at least a few of them. So, most people become lawbreakers sooner or later.

And then the government is free to decide who they will prosecute and who they won't... often arbitrarily, or according to whom the official in charge likes or doesn't like etc. Which puts us right back into the "rule of men" that our country's founders wanted so strongly to avoid: Any citizen can be grabbed and thrown in jail, fined, etc., at any time, whenever some govt official gets it into his head to do so.

The fact that the official can then point to whichever of the thousands of laws that the citizen failed to avoid, and claim the prosecution is being done "according to law", doesn't mean that we are living under the "rule of law" any more.
 
I would like to thank you for your contributions to the topic.



A FEW reasonable exceptions, yes. A Lot of exceptions apparently based on corporatism, no.

Please establish that the waivers have been granted as political favors.

But let us suppose that it really did come down to just a few exceptions...what about the rest of the list of what constitutes good rule of law? A case can be made that every one of the eight criteria on that list were violated. A good case can be made for a majority of the list.

Then please, make the case for each of them.
 
The waivers are an implementation of one of the oldest leftwing notions - the leftwing establishment and their clients should be spared the consequences of the horrible policies they foist on everyone else.


Other examples: they keep the failed government schools in operation, but the lib elite like obozo send their children to private schools.

Leftwing white professors run an "affirmative action" racket that penalizes white male applicants worst of all, but their son gets in as a "legacy".

Ted Kennedy pushed global waming, but opposed windmills in chesapeake bay because it spoiled his view.

Algore got rich with his global warming books and speeches, but has planes, low mileage vehicles, and a mansion with enough power consumption to power a small town.
 
I'm asking you to look at the waivers, and the rationales for the waivers, and show us that they are political favors.
 
I'm asking you to look at the waivers, and the rationales for the waivers, and show us that they are political favors.

Over half of the waivers have been handed out to unions which represent less than 12 percent of the work force. The statistical likelihood that waivers would be handed out in this way to strong political supporters of Obama is beyond what one could reasonably expect.

But that does not matter. The fact that some people got waivers and some did not already establishes that the law does not provide equal protection to all citizens. If we are to live under the rule of law then either virtually all citizens must receive waivers or none.

What do you think of the fact that your posts do not recognize what is a clear observation and that you are asking for nearly impossible proofs when very very strong statistical evidence already exist?

Remember that many people here have good memories and they will bring this up against you in the near future. If you want to be seen and respected as unbiased then you need to accept strong evidence even when you do not like it - at least most of the time (we can all be blinded at times). If in the court of public opinion most here fail to see you as unbiased they will not respect you and nothing you say will ever have any impact. There is no less at stake here in this one thread than your very ability to be of any influence. But perhaps you are completely unbiased - then make your own case for why the waivers are right and just rather than just expecting others to meet higher than normal standards for why they are not.
 
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The waivers are an implementation of one of the oldest leftwing notions - the leftwing establishment and their clients should be spared the consequences of the horrible policies they foist on everyone else.


Other examples: they keep the failed government schools in operation, but the lib elite like obozo send their children to private schools.

Leftwing white professors run an "affirmative action" racket that penalizes white male applicants worst of all, but their son gets in as a "legacy".

Ted Kennedy pushed global waming, but opposed windmills in chesapeake bay because it spoiled his view.

Algore got rich with his global warming books and speeches, but has planes, low mileage vehicles, and a mansion with enough power consumption to power a small town.

Both political parties do it. We the people need to wake up and realize that very often it is not left versus right but we the people versus the "political class".
 
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