Palin said humans and dinosuars walked the earth together

[Andy]

Can god create a problem he can't solve?

Like asking if ocean waves can create a sandy beach it can't wash away.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Erm no nothing like that actually.

You won't answer the question because either way god is logically proven to be incapable of omnipotence.

 

[Andy]

Erm no nothing like that actually.

You won't answer the question because either way god is logically proven to be incapable of omnipotence.

Anything God can make, obviously he can unmake. It's impossible for something to be impossible for God. That's logical.

The idea that God can not be omnipotent, because he can not create something that defies his omnipotence, is circular reasoning, and a logical fallacy in itself.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

He cannot be omnipotent because if he is omniscient he must know the future and to know the future the future must be fixed (ie god can't change it)

See, he can't be omnipotent and omniscient.

It just doesn't work.

Nasty god, making himself impossible to believe in.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

oh and BTW I can create a problem I cannot solve so where does that leave god?

 

[Andy]

oh and BTW I can create a problem I cannot solve so where does that leave god?

That only proves you are not God. Your limitation has no bearing on God, anymore than saying since I can't spell, you are obviously illiterate.

 

[Andy]

He cannot be omnipotent because if he is omniscient he must know the future and to know the future the future must be fixed (ie god can't change it)

See, he can't be omnipotent and omniscient.

It just doesn't work.

Nasty god, making himself impossible to believe in.

God does not just know "The Future" but also all possible futures. He knows how all of his actions, or inactions, and all of our choices on any subject, will change the out come of the future. There is no reason to believe that he can not change one possible future to another.

The problem here isn't that God is impossible, but rather that the (g)od you have created in your limited mental box, isn't possible. If god was limited the way you have limited him, then yes, that's impossible. Thankfully God isn't limited by you.

 

[Dr.Who]

The stories in the Bible, especially Genesis, originated before anyone had a written language, and were handed down through the oral tradition over centuries and generations, and were exclusively about that tribes own history, exclusive of all others unless their inclusion was essential to the story. Eventually, once the written laguage was invented, the stories were committed to stone, papyrus, and so on, and it is those translations of the stories that we have today.

That's one theory. Another one is that Moses, and occasionally one or two others, wrote the Genesis stories as told to him by God.

Given these facts, are there errors in the Bible? Of course, just as there are errors in the "official" records of our own Civil War, so the Bible is not a perfect 'history', but it does convey the general story, and as the time line got closer and closer to the time of Jesus, there is more and more 'factual' and archeologically proven aspects to the stories. We know for a fact that the man we know as Jesus did in fact live, that he did in fact deliver his Gospels, that he did in fact mightily piss off the Scribes and Pharisees, that he was in fact arrested, that he was in fact tried by Pontius Pilote, that he was condemned to death, and he was in fact crucified. None of that is in question, as it was written about, at the time, and later documented by Josephus.

There are some minor transcription errors in the copies of the bible but no one has shown any significant errors to date.

 

[Dr.Who]

The law of incest wasn't given until the time of Moses. There was no prohibition against incest at the time of Adam and Eve. Logically there would be no need of it, since genetic defects from incest does not appear until after a dozen or so generations.

You may be better informed than I am.

The last I heard incest concentrated defects (and strengths) that are already present but it does not create any defects at all. Mutagens cause defects. I have no reason to think that incest causes mutations.

 

[Dr.Who]

There was Adam and Eve. They had sons and daughters. There were no other humans created from the dust. All are sons and daughters of Adam and Eve.

He created all animals on the 5th and 6th day. I do not see that it is explicitly stated either way as to the specific number of animals of each type created. I don't see that it's important either.

This bolded statement is not a biblical statement I am familiar with. Does the bible state that no other humans were created other than the line of Adam?

 

[Dr.Who]

Odd since the other side of this discussion would claim they know what happened supposedly billions and billions of years ago. You take them on faith, but not this, and with no reason.

Good point Andy.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

There is carbon dating which is slightly more reliable than the bible.

And that is but one of many internationally accepted methods of dating stuff.

But why don't you guys nip out and ask a snake. I am sure it will tell you

 

[Dr.Who]

They can be compatible without a doubt, but the idea that they did not come from two separate stories or sources is widely held to be wrong by the vast majority of biblical scholars.

1) Can you support this statement that the two creation stories are widely held to be from two different sources by the majority of bible scholars?

I am not denying that there are not stylistic differences between the two. Nor am I denying that they may even have been separate manuscripts (J, E, P, D) once. I am proposing that they are probably separate works by the same author at different times in his life. With our most recent copies being dated to divergent centuries. The stylistic differences are cited as reasons for them to be from two different authors but one author can choose to write with different styles for example when writing a textbook versus writing a poem.

The two accounts also have great similarities. Similarities that appear to be both intentional and below consciousness, lending credence to the idea that it was the same author.
http://www.grisda.org/origins/05009.htm

It is my opinion that the discussion of the two sources as from one author or two is based entirely on analysis of style with no hard evidence and that analysis is completely interpretative.

2) Then after you make your case, can you show that regardless of consensus that the alleged majority opinion is the best one?

 

[Dr.Who]

Can god create a problem he can't solve?

Yes.


Because the bible never uses the word "omniscient" which was not even a word when the bible was written. The bible does not claim that God is omniscient. It does claim that he knows more than you though.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

The question was about omnipotence